VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:11 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 255
Default Bad rivet question

So I managed to do this...



and I am needing some advice on a good technique to get it out. I have no idea where the center is as I mushed it with the squeezer pretty good.

Additionally I had two ribs push out.


This one I already drilled out the rivet. You can see the flange is pushing away from the rear spar. I could use a good technique to sit these flat on the rear spar. If I get a clamp in I don't have enough room for a bucking bar or squeezer head. This is a countersunk rivet so it has to be put in this way.

Here is the other rib that got pushed out. I couldn't get access to squeeze or buck these so the shop head would be on the spar.


Thanks as always for the help

Last edited by HeliCooper : 07-26-2014 at 04:14 PM. Reason: Forgot a picture
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:32 PM
stinson pilot's Avatar
stinson pilot stinson pilot is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: North Bend, Wa
Posts: 75
Default

That's a nice Smiley...you'll have to drill easy, be sure not to go deep, till you can pop the head.
The other option is to drill the shop head. I've taught this, and it can be done. Again, don't go deep, just work it till you can pop the tail off.

As far as seating the flange, use a fiber washer around it, like a felt type washer, as you squeeze or buck. The hole should be about the size the shop head will be when finished or slightly larger.

As you squeeze/buck, it will push the material down.

Good luck..
__________________
Doug
1947 Stinson 108-2
Steen Skybolt
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-26-2014, 04:43 PM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
Default

One option is to use a Dremel and use a cut-off wheel to grind a flat on the manufactured head. Then it's pretty easy to find the center.
When doing this type of grinding I use 2 cut-off wheels together.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-26-2014, 07:48 PM
YellowJacket RV9 YellowJacket RV9 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL KCLW
Posts: 1,281
Default

What Mel said. The cutoff wheel is great for these situations when you have easy access.

Chris
__________________
Chris Johnson
RV-9A - Done(ish) 4/5/16! Flying 4/7/16
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-26-2014, 08:32 PM
Mike H Mike H is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Savannah
Posts: 806
Default

Looks like you have installed the flap and aileron gap seals already. Will these have to be removed to fix these rivets?
__________________
Mike Hammond
A&P IA PPL ASEL
RV-14A kit S/N 140170
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-27-2014, 12:56 PM
flion's Avatar
flion flion is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Posts: 2,653
Default

When the head's messed up like that, I've tended to go from the back side - I've always been able to see the center of the rivet in the shop head as a discoloration. You can also use an undersized drill; I find that a #40 works well for those rivets. That way if you are slightly off-center you still have a good chance of not messing up your hole. You just want to drill deep enough to snap the rivet head off and then you can use a punch to get the rest out.
__________________
Patrick Kelley - Flagstaff, AZ
RV-6A N156PK - Flying too much to paint
RV-10 14MX(reserved) - Fuselage on gear
http://www.mykitlog.com/flion/
EAA Technical Counselor #5357
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-27-2014, 05:46 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 255
Default

The gap seal isn't installed yet so that won't be an issue. I have tried once, very unsuccessfully, to back drill a bad rivet. I am a little gun shy to try that. I'm trying to work up the nerve to use the cutoff wheel. Just to be sure I am correct you guys are saying to use a cut off wheel to grind through the bad manufactured head and get down almost to the rib flange so that I can see the center of the rivet?

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:10 PM
YellowJacket RV9 YellowJacket RV9 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Clearwater, FL KCLW
Posts: 1,281
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliCooper View Post
The gap seal isn't installed yet so that won't be an issue. I have tried once, very unsuccessfully, to back drill a bad rivet. I am a little gun shy to try that. I'm trying to work up the nerve to use the cutoff wheel. Just to be sure I am correct you guys are saying to use a cut off wheel to grind through the bad manufactured head and get down almost to the rib flange so that I can see the center of the rivet?

Thanks for all the suggestions.
Yep, go slow, careful not to hit the wheel against anything else, and it's fairly easy. Before you grind it down all the way, you will see an outline of the rivet center, and can stop then and pop it off/out.

Chris
__________________
Chris Johnson
RV-9A - Done(ish) 4/5/16! Flying 4/7/16
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-27-2014, 06:10 PM
AlphaCharlieBravo AlphaCharlieBravo is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Olympia,WA
Posts: 210
Default

Im with Flion in this situation. I would go from the buck tail side but use the little sanding drum on the dremel tool. Take a scrap piece of .016, drill a hole a little larger than the buck tail, tape it around the rivet and sand the rivet down almost flush with the spar. Clean it up with the sanding disk after removing your protective .016. Drill the center w/#40 drill just enough to relieve rivet pressure. Back it up with a small socket so you don't bend the rib flange and gently tap it out w/ a small punch. Turn down the pressure on your air drill to just get the drill started in the center of the rivet and go slow. Take your time.
__________________
Arnie Barros
VAF #1401
(N89269) reserved
"Seek to understand before trying to be understood"

Last edited by AlphaCharlieBravo : 07-27-2014 at 06:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-28-2014, 12:07 PM
RobB52 RobB52 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 55
Default

As far as the flanges not being seated fully against the spar, I understand how to prevent that with the washer, etc. In this case, from the pictures it does not look that bad. Typically from my experience without the washer trick, the edge of the flange my lift a little but there is good contact area around the rivet. What are people's opinions on wheteher those rivets need drilling out and re-riveting? Is there a structural concern or just an aesthetic reason to ensure the flange is fully contacting the rib? I would agree if the rivet has expanded between the flange and skin it needs to be fixed, but otherwise is it an issue? Just looking for opinions. I know I have a couple places early in my build where the flanges look seated but I can slide a piece of paper between the flange and skin/spar on one side but other side is tight.

Thanks
__________________
Rob

RV-14 Flying
EAA Chapter 343 (DTN)
Shreveport, LA
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:44 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.