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06-13-2014, 06:46 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 1,614
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T Storm Outflow
Reading Doug R's post this morning about the WX. And pilot decision making.
I want to grab someone by the throat some times. My AME flew into my home field on a day like Doug describes. The only plane to land for about three hours that Saturday. And this man has been to school. Missed common sense 101 it appears. And then there were the 19 Hotshots killed near my home last May.
The outflow from two thunderstorms blew through on my back porch minutes before getting to the fire fighters. The air attack knew it was coming. We could all see it on our smart phones. Smart phones carried by dumb people at times. I will stop ranting, but I hope the observations Doug made are taken to heart by any aviator stopping by for a moment to read and learn.
As noted historically.... the NTSB comes to investigate the storm related crash... and it is clear and beautiful when they arrive.
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06-13-2014, 07:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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Where do you draw the line? I'm sure most would like to choke chainsaw jugglers, canyon tightrope walkers, etc. but why...you are ultimately responsible for your own safety and level of risks you want to take, and its not for someone else to decide. I'm sure most non-pilots think we're all crazy and should be banned from flying garage-built airplanes.
__________________
Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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06-13-2014, 12:16 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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The answer to your question ("Why?") is simple. We do not live in a vacuum, we're all interlinked. If there's an RV accident then my insurance rates go up. Someone lands on top of a house then I get the wrath of the anti-airport crowd. If the cause is something I can see might happen to me, say, mechanical failure, then I shrug my shoulders. If it was due to someone being stupid (by my definition) then I'm upset. It is just human nature.
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06-13-2014, 12:20 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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I can make the same argument about life insurance policies...why are you flying experimental airplanes, that puts you at risk and raises my life insurance. Thats my point, its a silly argument and nobody should be telling anyone else not to assume risks they're comfortable with.
__________________
Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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06-13-2014, 12:30 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Orem, UT
Posts: 213
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Thunderstorms
The CFI that did my last flight review was killed a few months later in a thunderstorm. They scare me.
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Finishing -12 tail cone
-9A Empennage done, in storage
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06-13-2014, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Bob, what I was trying to ask was, "If person X takes on a risk which can affect person Y, to what extent should person Y have input?" The answer is neither black and white nor absolute, but shades of gray. And because it is gray you will get a thousand different answers to each specific situation. Some will say Y gets no input, some a lot, and everything in between.
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06-13-2014, 01:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 2,904
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Intent
Like Flightlogic I live in AZ where we get Supercells but not the same type of Supercells that create tornados as in the tornado alley. Our Supercells will create very localized areas of intense weather including, Virga, microbursts and intense winds well outside of what you'd think. Also, Virga should not be messed with. DO NOT fly into Virga. They are often the precursor to Microbursts. You will not like the results.
I believe Doug's intent in his well written account is to advise us all to use better discretion. Why give anyone a reason to question GA? Certainly not being smart in such a situation would not help.
I always use the adage, "will my actions pass a headline test?" That has worked well for me over the years
Thanks Doug for venting.
__________________
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
www.JDair.com
RV-7 N717EE-Flying (Sold)
RV-7 N717AZ Flying, in paint
EMS Bell 407,
Eurocopter 350 A-Star Driver
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06-13-2014, 01:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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Nobody should cast judgement upon others based on the difference between what they're comfortable with vs. what you are comfortable with. Its a fundamental problem in American society that puts people in this country far behind other cultures. Lets say the table next you you at a restaurant, as your looking at the desert menu, imagine the person at the table next to yours saying "you can't eat cake." Without getting into a broader social argument, lets take formation flying as an example. I fly formation. I like flying formation. I am quite comfortable with it, and have developed the skills required to do so. There are many here who dislike this activity, There are many who think I should not be doing it because if I have an accident, it could potentially increase their insurance rates. To which I would respond, you need to go home, get into bed, pull the covers up over yourself and never get out of bed, because you might get run over by a car going to work, struck by lightning, etc. and increase my health insurance rates.
People in general need to mind their own business.
__________________
Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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06-13-2014, 01:37 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flightlogic
Reading Doug R's post this morning about the WX. And pilot decision making.
I want to grab someone by the throat some times. My AME flew into my home field on a day like Doug describes. The only plane to land for about three hours that Saturday. And this man has been to school. Missed common sense 101 it appears. And then there were the 19 Hotshots killed near my home last May.
The outflow from two thunderstorms blew through on my back porch minutes before getting to the fire fighters. The air attack knew it was coming. We could all see it on our smart phones. Smart phones carried by dumb people at times. I will stop ranting, but I hope the observations Doug made are taken to heart by any aviator stopping by for a moment to read and learn.
As noted historically.... the NTSB comes to investigate the storm related crash... and it is clear and beautiful when they arrive.
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Flying sailplanes in the Mojave desert invites being near strong convective lift.
Sometimes these nice cumulus can turn into isolated thunderstorms and microbursts with an associated haboob.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haboob
We were taught to always land towards a thunderstorm just in case it created an unexpected microburst. Since flying away is less of an option in a sailplane, landings adjacent to thunderstorms happen, even if the thunderstorm is small and a few miles away.
It's a good rule to follow on an desert summer day.
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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06-13-2014, 08:46 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Posts: 1,565
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100% agree with Rocketbob. More and more, I think the typical American citizen acts something like this :

__________________
Brad Benson, Maplewood MN.
RV-6A N164BL, Flying since Nov 2012!
If you're not making mistakes, you're probably not making anything
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