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  #1  
Old 04-25-2014, 04:38 PM
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Noah Noah is offline
 
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Default North Atlantic Crossing - Survival Suit

A friend is planning a North Atlantic ocean crossing along the Crimson Route in a single engine aircraft in a week and he's trying to iron out some items on his equipment list. He plans to bring a scuba diving dry suit in case of ditching, and wear the bottom half in flight for quick donning. Any thoughts on the performance of this gear compared to a USCG approved "gumby" style survival suit, in the North Atlantic, much of which apparently still contains ice? One concern he has is that the Gumby Suit is too warm to wear in-flight, even the bottom half of it, and there is no way to don it quickly.

My buddy is a frugal guy, and cost is a consideration. But I guess I lean towards "You use the right gear, or you don't do the trip". Can survival suits be rented for a reasonable price? Anybody got any leads in that direction? Thoughts?
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All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men? for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible. -T.E. Lawrence
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:04 PM
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jcaplins jcaplins is offline
 
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I have, and dive, a drysuit. I wouldn't call it "quick-doning". (but then, I don't know how long a survival suit takes to put on.)

What type of drysuit is it? Neoprene, crushed-neoprene, trilam, other?
In general, Drysuits keep you warm based what you wear underneath and air in the suit. Also a hood and gloves (if not using dry gloves) would need to be put on separately; this will take more time. So, with the drysuit, he will still need to dress warm.
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  #3  
Old 04-25-2014, 05:49 PM
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Concur on the previous comment. A drysuit is going to only be as good as the undergarments you have on under them and the diving variety is designed to keep you somewhat dry, not warm. Even up here in the Puget Sound with our nice 46F water this time of year, after an hour we tend to get a little chilly. Take that to the North Atlantic for hours and you might have some issues.

I'm also not sure how you buddy would wear "the bottom half" as diving drysuits are normally entered through either a front cross-chest, or across-back zipper, they just don't come in halves, and if he's not zipped up outside the airplane, he's going to have a tough time zipping it when needed.

Maybe the mil-spec guys can chime in as to what they wear for exposure protection in event of a bailout over cold water.
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:33 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Mark Albery is the guy to ask - flew the North Atlantic in his RV-8 last year, wrote it up in Kitplanes. Check his article for details!

I used to run dive operations on the North Shore of Lake Superior many, many years ago, and I'd opine that if you don't have the suit on when you go down, you don't have a prayer of getting it on later.
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  #5  
Old 04-25-2014, 06:38 PM
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Agreed Paul, I sent my buddy the Kitplanes article from the December issue, and it has been his go-to source for info on the trip. Would you have any contact info for Mark Albery?

Funny enough, my buddy is also a Minnesotan and dives in Superior frequently himself!
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All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men? for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible. -T.E. Lawrence
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  #6  
Old 04-25-2014, 06:48 PM
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Mark Albery Mark Albery is offline
 
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I'd be glad to help out any way I can.

I had an insulated swimming suit as a base layer and an ex- North Sea rig workers immersion suit as my outer layer. Overheating was not a problem!
I just had the immersion suit unzipped to the waist, so that it could be pulled tight very quickly if needed.
The life-raft and grab bag need to be very close to hand or there's no point having them. A mentally rehearsed ditching drill is a good idea too.

The base layer suit is available if it fits. It's ML size (I'm 175cm and 75kg).

What aircraft type is he taking?
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Old 04-25-2014, 06:52 PM
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Oh cool, thanks Mark! It's a Cessna 206.
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Noah F, RV-7A

All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men? for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible. -T.E. Lawrence
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  #8  
Old 04-26-2014, 12:55 PM
Kevlor Kevlor is offline
 
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Wow great to see Mark Albery's name on this thread. The Kitplanes article is a gem.

I'm Noah's "Frugal Friend" from the beginning of this thread. First time posting. I have a musty private ticket but am basically a (hopefully) helpful passenger on this trip from Minneapolis to Scotland via Greenland and Iceland. I'm mostly focused on the safety gear and other details.

Equipment: My friend's aircraft is a Cessna 206 that's maybe 8 years old. It's been retrofit with long range tanks. He's an IFR pilot with about 3500 hrs. He flies to the coasts, up into Canada and to the Rockies so I feel pretty good about his experience.

We have 2 weeks to get to Scotland so we can wait for good weather which also makes me feel better about risk (and sightseeing).

This thread is about survival suits so I'll get to it.

We plan to use Scuba dry suits (with boots) that zip across the front. These will be worn with torso out. I know from dry suit diving in Superior that under layers are key. When upright in the water the suit is basically vacuum sealed tight to the body esp legs.

My underlayers are a 3mm neoprene farmer john bottom under wool pants. On top I have a long underwear undershirt and a thick wool fisherman's sweater. Neoprene hood and either neoprene gloves or mits.

I've practiced donning and zipping in the car and it works pretty well. The zip across the front is quite long and allows reasonably easy donning. I might even try having it on totally with the zipper open to see if its bearable.

My life vest has a big pocket where I'll keep the PLB and other most important survival gear. I'd also like use my "fanny pack" type dry bag to keep more gear on my person but am reluctant to get too encumbered for exiting the aircraft.

The remaining lowest priority (if there can be such a thing) survival gear will be in two parcels - life raft and dry bag . These will be on the floor.

We have the Delorme Inreach tracker, Sat Phone, handheld vhf radio and other stuff that's a composite of Marks list and others. The bulk of this stuff adds up!

Lots of info out there - some from people selling stuff. After shopping around for survival suits I decided the solution was right in my dive bag. Any opinions?

When I first started researching ditching I imagined it would be a very violent, low percentage survival situation. I was heartened to learn that it CAN be much less so. Really interesting subject. This helps to temper those early morning ruminations of "WHY are we doing this?"

We are working on a ditching procedure that sort've combines the list for the aircraft with the stuff specific to our team. Hopefully some rehearsals will eliminate the real show stopper problems during an actual emergency.

This next thing may cause you all to think I'm nuts. During spring Kayaking in MN we wear a neoprene hood under a paddling helmet. Since we have LOTS of room in back of the aircraft I thought I'd bring my helmet and don it given time. Really can't hurt - and I sorta feel naked without it.... I can't think of a good reason not to. Thoughts?

THANKS for allowing me into your community for a bit and for any input!

Kevin
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  #9  
Old 04-26-2014, 01:15 PM
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Mark Albery Mark Albery is offline
 
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Hi Kevin,

And welcome to VAF!

Statistically over 90% of ditchings are successful in that the occupants manage to evacuate the aircraft, but that isn't the end of the story.

This article is worth reading.

If you PM me your email address, I'll send you the web links that I harvested while preparing for the trip.

You seem to be thinking in the right direction. I would try to get the immersion gear so that it can be sealed up with the minimum of fuss. Having a co-pilot will undoubtedly help, but donning the whole kit on while seated in the aircraft is unlikely to be successful. The water temperatures are brutal and you need to get in the raft as soon as possible if the worst happens.

When I crossed last year, the Hudson and Davis straits were almost completely frozen. Landing on the ice may work, but going through it doesn't bear thinking about.
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  #10  
Old 04-26-2014, 04:28 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Read and heed what Mark said. If you don't get in a raft the suit is not going to make enough difference to allow a rescue. The raft is the key. The suit gives you tome to get in the raft and stay warm after that. Have a good raft!

George
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