RV-6A nose gear with Anti-Splat device fails

[Don]

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

To make this type of database of much use, one other important data point would need to be known.

We would need to know how many of the "A" models actively flying, have any or all of the listed mods installed.
Based on the total # of RV-6A's, 7A's, 8A's, and 9A's that have been completed, I think it would be very conservitave to estimate the total number of A models at 2500 (I am pretty sure it is a higher #).
We would need to know how many of those are flying with an entirely standard nose gear, and how many have (and which ones) modifications to make a meaningful comparison of the benefits of any/all of the modifications.

I was wondering about this, too. Perhaps Alan will weigh in here sometime. My guess, and it's just a guess, based on a few e-mails and one telephone conversation with him, is he's trying to get the facts on this incident before he comments.

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by Don

I was wondering about this, too. Perhaps Alan will weigh in here sometime. My guess, and it's just a guess, based on a few e-mails and one telephone conversation with him, is he's trying to get the facts on this incident before he comments.

Some time in the past Alan had stated he had already sold thousands of the anti-splat add on brace (the plural thousand to me means at least 2000).
I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt... that it was a just bit of salesmaneees when he said thousands. If that were the case, then more than 2/3s of the entire "A" model fleet would now be flying with the device. From what I have seen, it is not anywhere close to that.

There in lays the challenge.... getting useful data...

[plehrke]

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

To make this type of database of much use, one other important data point would need to be known.

We would need to know how many of the "A" models actively flying, have any or all of the listed mods installed.
Based on the total # of RV-6A's, 7A's, 8A's, and 9A's that have been completed, I think it would be very conservitave to estimate the total number of A models at 2500 (I am pretty sure it is a higher #).
We would need to know how many of those are flying with an entirely standard nose gear, and how many have (and which ones) modifications to make a meaningful comparison of the benefits of any/all of the modifications.

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

There in lays the challenge.... getting useful data...

The advantage of Experimental Amature Built (we build them the way we want) can also be the curse (no good data).

Thank goodness for Vans and this forum.

[AV8AZ]

As Warren Buffett once said, "should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks."

For me, the idea of getting useful and accurate data on all A-model nose overs implies the desire to create another patch. It would seem useful enough to know that A-models have a tendency to nose-over while taxiing at low speed while most all other nosewheel aircraft do not. It would be useful to know that one patch has been implemented quite widely but apparently still allows for a nose-over phenomenon that simply doesn't occur with any frequency in other nosewheel aircraft. If other (seemingly) proven designs exist, for how long would you continue to develop patches?

If Vans or a reputable aftermarket shop offered retrofit 10/14 style mound and nose gear for the 7/8/9, would there be interest in beta testers? While this path would be uncharted I would personally take one.

Tyson

[rhill]

Originally Posted by AV8AZ

As Warren Buffett once said, "should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks."

For me, the idea of getting useful and accurate data on all A-model nose overs implies the desire to create another patch. It would seem useful enough to know that A-models have a tendency to nose-over while taxiing at low speed while most all other nosewheel aircraft do not. It would be useful to know that one patch has been implemented quite widely but apparently still allows for a nose-over phenomenon that simply doesn't occur with any frequency in other nosewheel aircraft. If other (seemingly) proven designs exist, for how long would you continue to develop patches?

If Vans or a reputable aftermarket shop offered retrofit 10/14 style mound and nose gear for the 7/8/9, would there be interest in beta testers? While this path would be uncharted I would personally take one.

Tyson

Wile I agree in principal, there is no data to suggest the Anti-Splat Brace & Wheel Bearing Mod and Nose Skid are or are not an effective "Patch". I recall there own ship got dropped in hard and recovered.I'm confident Vans knows the number of bent nose gears but would have no idea as to wheel bearing modifications.As Sam has correctly pointed out,the number of failures is small statistically with one being too many.This Thread and Spreed Sheet is of tremendous Value to All.Keep in mind there are four wheel bearing configurations that I'm aware of,the question of what works and what doesn't needs to be sorted out. I know of a least two 10s that have gone down without flipping and one that the hand of God lowered to the ground himself,without the nose gear influencing the outcome,so a 10 style gear would be welcome but doesn't negate the need for information.
RHill

[Taildrgr]

Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002

Some time in the past Alan had stated he had already sold thousands of the anti-splat add on brace (the plural thousand to me means at least 2000).
I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt... that it was a just bit of salesmaneees when he said thousands. If that were the case, then more than 2/3s of the entire "A" model fleet would now be flying with the device. From what I have seen, it is not anywhere close to that.

There in lays the challenge.... getting useful data...

I may have misinterpreted your comment about the number of A model fleet that is flying with the nose gear mod. I have the mod on mine, but I am still under construction and not flying. There are probably a few more like me. So the does the number you used of 2/3's of the fleet include those still under construction?

[Steve Ashby]

While everyone is talking about failure data, I was wondering if there has been a reported nose gear failure on an 8A.

Thanks!

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by Taildrgr

So the does the number you used of 2/3's of the fleet include those still under construction?

No.
There is realistically no practical way to put a number on how many A model builders who have not yet flown, are part of the total # that Alan has sold (unless he has kept records of that... not likely).
My comment was that if Alan has sold thousands, and we discounted the # that could be on yet to be flown airplanes (something I failed to mention), then possibly 2/3's of the flying A models should have it installed.
Trying to account for yet to be flown aircraft that have it installed adds one more challenge to acquiring useful data.

[Pmerems]

I am an RV-7A driver and follow all the posts of nose gear collapses.

During my morning wake-up session at work I eat my breakfast and check the latest US and world news. But I also check the latest NTSB accident reports. Maybe I can learn something from these incidence reports that might help someday. These aren't the full reports just the initial posting of the accident. Not a lot of tremendous detail but some basic info. Here is what I learned so far:

1. It is very common to have a commercial jet damaged on the ground on the ramp. Happens multiple times a week.

2. Bird strikes are all to common for the big jets.

3. Many GA airplanes land with their gear up (don't know why, forgetfulness or mechanical problems)

4. Many tail draggers ground loop.

5. Many GA airplanes (Cessna, Beech, Piper etc) have nose gear collapses all to often.

Food for thought.

[Don]

Originally Posted by rhill

there are four wheel bearing configurations that I'm aware of

Could you list the four? I'm only aware of 3 - stock, ASA, and Berringer. Thanks.