Shop: New Construction House w/ Arc Fault Breakers

[Jamie]

Since finishing and selling my -7A, my wife and I have moved into new construction that uses new-fangled arc fault breakers. I'm trying to get a shop squared away for another RV build and it seems that these breakers are now mandated by code in our area. The problem is that anything that generates a lot of noise (such as a vacuum cleaner) can cause the breakers the trip. This is unfortunate since my 110v compressor seems to trip the breaker for my garage quite often.

When I asked the builder's electrician about this I got a bunch of head scratching and "well, you could..." type answers and complaining about the breakers being mandated, but no real answers.

So here are my questions:

Can I simply swap out the breakers for ones rated with higher amps. What are the risks here? I mean, how do I determine what is a safe amperage for the circuit to my garage? What other ideas might you all have?

[Pmerems]

The wire gage in the wall and the outlet current rating will limit the largest breaker you can install safely.

[Pmerems]

The wire gage in the wall and the outlet current rating will limit the largest breaker you can install safely.

Try moving the compressor to the outlet closest to the breaker panel if possible. You might not trip the breaker if the wire run from the outlet to the breaker is shorter.

[n801bh]

They SUCK.... Every house I built for the last 7 years had to have them and every homeowner complains they nuisance trip ALL the time.. One name brand UL approved vacuum cleaner will be ok, another UL approved vacuum cleaner will trip it.....

My solution is.. install regular breakers after they get the certificate of occupancy and when they go to sell the house, reinstall the **** Arc fault ones to get it to pass a home inspection...

Did I mention I HATE arc fault breakers..

Ps.... To the OP... They will NOT work with a shared neutral /white wire.. It has to be a dedicated nuetral wire for that device to that breaker alone..

[hgerhardt]

We remodeled our house 10 years ago and AFCI's were only mandated for bedroom circuits, with the logic being they could sense, for example, a fault in an electric blanket where the resistance wire had an intermittent break, which would spark and catch fire. Neither a normal breaker nor a GFCI could sense that.

That said, why would you want them in a shop environment? That's what GFCI's are for. Kitchens and bathrooms too. Does the latest Electric Code really mandate AFCI's for every outlet circuit??

Heinrich

[RogerG]

The problem with arc fault breakers is they detect arc in devices that have brush type motors such as power tools, and vacuum cleaners. After electrical inspection and CO some people replace their Q120AFCI breakers with the standard Q120 breaker on problem circuits. Obviously the AFCI breakers increase safety, but real world they cannot detect good arc from bad.

[kjlpdx]

don't swap for higher amps. the breaker is protecting your wiring from burning up inside the walls. typically 12 gauge[yellow romex] can handle 20amps[typically wall outlets, appliances], 14 gauge[white romex] 15 amps[typ. lighting circuits]. people used to have similar complaints about GFI's, but those seem to have gotten better.

[scsmith]

Originally Posted by n801bh

They SUCK....
Ps.... To the OP... They will NOT work with a shared neutral /white wire.. It has to be a dedicated nuetral wire for that device to that breaker alone..

n801bh is correct. I learned this the hard way by trial and error on a project that was one of the first after the new code. None of the local electricians knew this, in fact it was a professional electrician that, as was his habit, tied a bunch of neutrals together in several boxes. It took several days of head scratching to unravel how these things work and reasoned that they must have dedicated neutrals all the way back to the breaker. Once we did that, no more problems, they work fine, do their job, no nuisance trips.

Oh and as per another comment above, they were only required in bedrooms. Garage uses GFI.

[rbibb]

Would the code allow a dedicated outlet (or hard wired circuit) for the compressor protected by a slow blow fuse? See these for Heat Pumps all the time...

[BillL]

Originally Posted by kjlpdx

don't swap for higher amps. the breaker is protecting your wiring from burning up inside the walls. typically 12 gauge[yellow romex] can handle 20amps[typically wall outlets, appliances], 14 gauge[white romex] 15 amps[typ. lighting circuits]. people used to have similar complaints about GFI's, but those seem to have gotten better.

I would suggest that one check the NEC directly and not automatically use these very safe numbers.