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POSTING RULES

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04-06-2014, 09:57 AM
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JOAT-MON & Moderator
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vincent, Ohio
Posts: 737
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I'll have to agree with Bill and Paul here.
We all know 'someone' that has made a dozen inquiries (pick ANY topic  ) until they get the answer they want. For my choice of N number font, size, location, etc, I simply contacted a few FSDO's who ALL agreed I was good to go and no issue with my FAA inspection.....no exceptions. At the time this was 'OK' with me, and no, I didn't have it in writing......not that it would help.....as noted. I'd be interested in knowing if my Rocket was on the 'hit list' at Sun 'n Fun  .
I've also seen more than one FAA inspector break out a ruler and measure an N number. To avoid any 'confusion' I always make my numbers 1 1/8" tall.
The above said I DO agree that it only takes one person to ruin your day. In retrospect I don't think I'd airbrush any more N numbers not only for the reasons being discussed here but also in the event of a sale it enables the new owner to easily change the number to another of his/her choice. I currently have a little RV7 that has the N number painted exactly where my Rocket one was, I'd like to change it (the number not the location) but don't 'feel like' repainting so it will stay as is. I'll just sell the plane instead  .
Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
Would that really matter? I have heard more than one story about FSDO's providing conflicting information.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
Absolutely - and it can get ugly!
The moral is that yes, you can go FSDO shopping and eventually get a favorable ruling on just about anything, but this may not protect you from enforcement action if another FSDO decides to interpret things differently. You can be "in the right" and still spend a lot of time, money and effort defending yourself.
Choose wisely....
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__________________
Rick Gray in Ohio - Builder Assist Center - 50+ Awards & counting
BRONZE / SILVER & GOLD LINDY AWARD WINNING RV's & Rockets
EAA Oshkosh Homebuilt Judge/Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor / F.A.S.T. Formation Flight Lead
Kitfox/RV4/6/7/8/9/10/12/14?s
6 RV10's
2 Time Sun n Fun Grand Champion
F1 Rocket #1 Oshkosh Gold Lindy Grand Champion!
F1 Rocket #2 :-)
Fastback RV8 Slider
RV14 #2 in progress
54 RV's & Rockets & counting
Whirlwind Prop Dealer
Love my Pitts S-1S
Last edited by rv6rick : 04-06-2014 at 10:01 AM.
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04-06-2014, 10:32 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,645
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I got a fix it ticket last week in my truck because I didn't have a front license plate. I don't like how it looks so I didn't put it on. After the ticket, i put it on, got it checked, then went home and took it off. Problem solved until next time a trooper pulls me over. Everyone is happy. Maybe an extra set of vinyl "legal" numbers in the baggage area solves the issue.
__________________
rockwoodrv9a
Williamston MI
O-320 D2A
Awaiting DAR Inspection
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04-06-2014, 10:34 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: syracuse ny/venice fl
Posts: 623
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i fixed em! i cut my own "N" numbers, 2-63/64" tall!! LOL. so far no problem!
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04-06-2014, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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As far as shopping for FSDOs to get the answer you want, you need to know that a FAA inspector does NOT have the authority to override FARs.
The interpretation/decision is made in Washington and handed down to inspectors. So even if you get an inspector to give you something in writing (good luck with that), it still doesn't get you off the hook.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Last edited by Mel : 04-06-2014 at 06:46 PM.
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04-06-2014, 01:00 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Memphis
Posts: 159
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"maximum cruising speeed"
As to the "maximum cruising speed" in question:
It appears that Vno is a speed governed by FAA PArt 23.1 that does not include "experiemental:"
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 23—AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS: NORMAL, UTILITY, ACROBATIC, AND COMMUTER CATEGORY AIRPLANES
Subpart A—General
§23.1 Applicability.
(a) This part prescribes airworthiness standards for the issue of type certificates, and changes to those certificates, for airplanes in the normal, utility, acrobatic, and commuter categories.
(b) Each person who applies under Part 21 for such a certificate or change must show compliance with the applicable requirements of this part.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 23-34, 52 FR 1825, Jan. 15, 1987]
***************************8
This section defines maximum cruising speed, but remember Part 23 does not apply to "Experimental."
Title 14: Aeronautics and Space
PART 23—AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS: NORMAL, UTILITY, ACROBATIC, AND COMMUTER CATEGORY AIRPLANES
Subpart G—Operating Limitations and Information
§23.1505 Airspeed limitations.
(a) The never-exceed speed VNE must be established so that it is—
(1) Not less than 0.9 times the minimum value of VD allowed under §23.335; and
(2) Not more than the lesser of—
(i) 0.9 VD established under §23.335; or
(ii) 0.9 times the maximum speed shown under §23.251.
(b) The maximum structural cruising speed VNO must be established so that it is—
(1) Not less than the minimum value of VC allowed under §23.335; and
(2) Not more than the lesser of—
(i) VC established under §23.335; or
(ii) 0.89 VNE established under paragraph (a) of this section.
(c)(1) Paragraphs (a) and (b) of this section do not apply to turbine airplanes or to airplanes for which a design diving speed VD/MD is established under §23.335(b)(4). For those airplanes, a maximum operating limit speed (VMO/MMO airspeed or Mach number, whichever is critical at a particular altitude) must be established as a speed that may not be deliberately exceeded in any regime of flight (climb, cruise, or descent) unless a higher speed is authorized for flight test or pilot training operations.
(2) VMO/MMO must be established so that it is not greater than the design cruising speed VC/MC and so that it is sufficiently below VD/MD, or VDF/MDF for jets, and the maximum speed shown under §23.251 to make it highly improbable that the latter speeds will be inadvertently exceeded in operations.
(3) The speed margin between VMO/MMO and VD/MD, or VDF/MDF for jets, may not be less than that determined under §23.335(b), or the speed margin found necessary in the flight tests conducted under §23.253.
[Doc. No. 4080, 29 FR 17955, Dec. 18, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 23-7, 34 FR 13096, Aug. 13, 1969; Amdt. 23-62, 76 FR 75762, Dec. 2, 2011]
************************************************
continuing the search into EXPERIMENTAL
Last edited by L'Avion : 04-06-2014 at 01:03 PM.
Reason: had to remove "yellow" illegible
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04-06-2014, 02:02 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Daytona Beach, Florida
Posts: 121
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RV6Rick
Hint: It was an SX 300. I think he just won g-champion for S-N-F 2014
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04-06-2014, 05:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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In some references max cruise speed = Vh which by Part 1 is maximum continuous power level flight.
Don't know if that is the Part 45 intent.
__________________
Dan Morris
Frederick, MD
PA28-140
Hph 304CZ
RV6 built and sold
N199EC RV6A flying
Learn the facts. "Democracy dies in darkness"
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04-06-2014, 05:56 PM
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JOAT-MON & Moderator
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vincent, Ohio
Posts: 737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneL
Hint: It was an SX 300. I think he just won g-champion for S-N-F 2014
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Ahhh, gotcha.....I remember Judging this plane at Oshkosh last year....very nice  . Since this is an 'RV' site I only looked at the 'RVs' that won awards.
That said....'N numbers' are 'N numbers' so I'm posting a pic of the plane so folks here can understand what the FAA at Sun 'n Fun deemed as "contrast problems" (as quoted in previous post). I didn't look up what the rules are regarding 'contrast' but I'm sure someone with more time on their hands will do it for us  .
Personally, I can see the number quite clearly but evidently others (with ID badges) view things differently.....as has been discussed. Matter of fact the 'N number' is a lot clearer to me than the little yellow RV under the spinner  .

__________________
Rick Gray in Ohio - Builder Assist Center - 50+ Awards & counting
BRONZE / SILVER & GOLD LINDY AWARD WINNING RV's & Rockets
EAA Oshkosh Homebuilt Judge/Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor / F.A.S.T. Formation Flight Lead
Kitfox/RV4/6/7/8/9/10/12/14?s
6 RV10's
2 Time Sun n Fun Grand Champion
F1 Rocket #1 Oshkosh Gold Lindy Grand Champion!
F1 Rocket #2 :-)
Fastback RV8 Slider
RV14 #2 in progress
54 RV's & Rockets & counting
Whirlwind Prop Dealer
Love my Pitts S-1S
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04-06-2014, 08:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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Whatever. Both those numbers fail the smell test under part 45.
__________________
Actual repeat offender.
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04-06-2014, 08:55 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerhed
Whatever. Both those numbers fail the smell test under part 45.
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Agreed. Maybe we need more detail like in the UK...
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP523.PDF
__________________
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.
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