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  #21  
Old 03-01-2014, 12:01 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M McGraw View Post
[/b]

A lot of errors/issues absolutely not! Some yes, but I know I could have not written a better manual. I'm a first time builder and very pleased with the quality of the kit and instructions. I have called Van's technical help about three times and quickly decided I should just read a little better before calling. With that said this website has been EXTREMELY helpful. While building the wing kit reading ahead to understand the manual was very helpful. The Tail kit has proven much more sequential. Most of the errors I have found have been on the order of wrong rivet callouts; however, as time has gone by I have gotten better at looking and thinking before riveting. Thank you to VAF and Vans, it is a fun way to spend the day.
Thanks for the positive comments Marvin.

Regarding rivet length call outs... Keep in mind that the .5D / 1.5D rule, isn't a rule at all. It is a general guide line.
Often times a rivet length will be spec.ed that at first glance appears too short. The reason is that often the next longer size is actually a bit too long. Too long has a much higher risk for a novice builder to clinch over the rivet and then be tempted to remove it and try again (often with bad results). If the shorter rivet will still provide a shop head that meets the MIL spec for rivet head dimensions as shown in THIS DOCUMENT (and also detailed in chapter 5.4 of Section 5 of the construction manual), it is usually specified. If a builder chooses to use one slightly longer, and can properly install it, that is of course totally fine.

This is not to say that there wont still be occasional errors on rivet call outs, so builders should always be cross checking. If an error is found, where a specified rivet can't produce a proper sized rivet head that meets the "MIL Spec", then please let Van's know.
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  #22  
Old 03-02-2014, 09:19 PM
Barneybc12d Barneybc12d is offline
 
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Location: Belleville, il
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocky005 View Post
We have finished our RV-14 rudder as per VAN's plans. Our trailing edge is bonded with 3M adhesive tape, riveted and it is nice and straight.
One side of the rudder now sits flat on the workbench but if we turn our rudder over it has a twist of about 20mm causing it to rock.

Please post how your RV-14 rudder sits with each side up (ie flat) when on a level workbench? Does anyone else see a twist on one side of their rudder?


This may not affect our rudders performance. Thoughts?
I just finished my rudder today and have the exact same result as rocky005. I used two 3/4" aluminum angles to sandwich the TE together. Used 3M-5200 in lieu of tape. The TE hung over the edge of my bench so the clecos would clear and the angle was flat on the table. Shims were used under the rudder to keep the TE flat on the bench. Waited 2 days and riveted in the same manner. There was no load or bind on the rudder at any time that would have changed the shape of the structure. TE turned out straight.

The way the left and right stiffeners are riveted to each other and then to the spar, how can the geometry turn out any other way? Please be sure to post Van's reply.
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  #23  
Old 03-03-2014, 09:04 AM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
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Location: Des Moines, IA
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Finally got around to checking mine. I used the 3M tape and aluminum angle to keep the edge straight. Here are the results.



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  #24  
Old 03-03-2014, 01:59 PM
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Aerosporty Aerosporty is offline
 
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Could it just be the counterweight lifting the opposite corner?
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  #25  
Old 03-04-2014, 12:56 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
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From Sterling Langrell at Van's regarding my pictures.

"The RV-14 rudder design (similar to 6,8 and early 7 rudders) if built perfectly strait will not lay
flat on a table. The fact that one side of yours does lay flat and is lifted the 7/16 when you flip
it over tells me you have a twist in the rudder. Your actual twist will only be half of that
measurement at 7/32. This is not enough of a twist that any action needs to be taken to
correct it."
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  #26  
Old 03-04-2014, 05:35 PM
bschweinberg bschweinberg is offline
 
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Location: West Chester, OH
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Based on the reply that HeliCooper got from Van's, I feel much better about my rudder. It does not lay perfectly flat on either side. At the bottom of the trailing edge, one side is lifted by 12/32, and when I flip it over, it is lifted by 9/32.

So the difference is 3/32.

If I understand correctly, only half of that (3/64) would represent a slight twist in my rudder.

Did I read Van's reply correctly?


bschweinberg
R-14A
www.mykitlog.com/bschweinberg
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  #27  
Old 03-04-2014, 09:17 PM
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rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bschweinberg View Post
Based on the reply that HeliCooper got from Van's, I feel much better about my rudder. It does not lay perfectly flat on either side. At the bottom of the trailing edge, one side is lifted by 12/32, and when I flip it over, it is lifted by 9/32.

So the difference is 3/32.

If I understand correctly, only half of that (3/64) would represent a slight twist in my rudder.

Did I read Van's reply correctly?


bschweinberg
R-14A
www.mykitlog.com/bschweinberg
Yes.
Your rudder has about 3/64" of twist.
I think it will still fly just fine
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2014, 06:49 AM
Rocky005 Rocky005 is offline
 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Yes.
Your rudder has about 3/64" of twist.
I think it will still fly just fine
Hi Scott

Thanks for the reassuring words.

I also received a response from Ken to my email to VANs support, I hope its OK to post it here:-
Subject: Re: Fwd: RV-14 Rudder symmetry?
It's doubtful that you'll notice any difference. Almost every RV requires some sort of yaw trim correction when it flies. The amount is a sum of many forces -- this very small asymmetry is just part of a much larger pie and not all worth concern

Forwarded to: kenS


So looking forward to finishing our empennage, its a great kit by the way.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2015, 05:32 AM
salto salto is offline
 
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Location: Wee Waa Australia
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Default Salto

Well my son and I finished the rudder today ( still trying to work out how to get a couple of rivets in inside the bottom brace) and it lays absolutely flat on the table both sides. Scott said in a previous post that it wouldn't so I'm blessed if I know what to think now. Trailing edge is straight.... found by taking the white plastic off the back rivetting tool and low pressure as instructed the double countersinks set perfectly. Each job seems to be an adventure at the moment...great kit and instructions.
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  #30  
Old 11-13-2015, 11:24 AM
Mudfly Mudfly is offline
 
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Default Rudder Twist

Add me to the list of the rudder twist club.
I used the double side tape called for in the plans on the trailing edge. I then clecoed the t/e to a piece of flat steel with holes drilled to accept the clecos. No other weights were used.
The t\e came out perfectly straight, but when laid on a flat surface there appears to be a twist. One side sits completely flat, but when flipped over, the lower portion of the rudder is approx. 1/2" off the surface.
After reviewing the other posts in this thread, I think I'm "ok", but just putting this out there for reference.
Not sure what I would do different if I did it again. Maybe make sure I wasn't "pulling" portions of the rudder flat to the steel with the clecos prior to riveting.

The flat side:


The non-flat side


The difference:
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