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  #31  
Old 02-25-2014, 09:42 AM
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flyboy1963 flyboy1963 is offline
 
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Location: Lake Country, B.C. Canada
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Default good observations Scott

I have to agreed with pretty much everything you've noted about vinyl on aircraft, I think I did my first set of registration marks with hand-cut Fascal vinyl in about 1984.

question: why does your 'sales director' not want you communicating with 10,000 potential customers? How much more targeted and audience could you possibly have? I've worked in advertising, and can't think of a better ROI!

keep up the info stream, do it on your coffee break, or whatever, (tell him to go back to skool!)
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  #32  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:13 AM
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AircraftWraps AircraftWraps is offline
 
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Default Thank you

Before I start answering questions I just wanted to say on behalf of us here at AW - thank you for the overwhelming responses we've seen from the VAF community since Doug (thank you for having us Doug) put our ad up.

I've spoken to some fantastic chaps over email (ladies where are you!) and seen some great examples of homebuilding and many dreams realised - I guess we consider those pictures to be 'airporn' over here (we're a strange bunch).

If I missed a question feel free to throw it back at me, I can only apologise for the next few posts as they are going to be me quoting people and responding.

Last point on my introduction is to say that we do plan to do some things for the VAF community further down the road as well as a charity or two I have noticed around the forum, if you would like to be kept in the loop about items such as this please do go and visit us at

http://www.aircraftwraps.com/#contact

Submit the form and add in the message 'add me to mailing list'

or just drop us an email at info@aircraftwraps.com

Thank you again

Guy

www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replacing paint with performance.
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  #33  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:15 AM
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AircraftWraps AircraftWraps is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963 View Post
I have to agreed with pretty much everything you've noted about vinyl on aircraft, I think I did my first set of registration marks with hand-cut Fascal vinyl in about 1984.

question: why does your 'sales director' not want you communicating with 10,000 potential customers? How much more targeted and audience could you possibly have? I've worked in advertising, and can't think of a better ROI!

keep up the info stream, do it on your coffee break, or whatever, (tell him to go back to skool!)
Because he needs to be in a Hangar directing people!

There, I've said it !

Scott - carry on, the masses have spoken!

Guy

www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replacing paint with performance.

Last edited by AircraftWraps : 02-25-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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  #34  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchang10 View Post
I have been slowly adding vinyl on my 2 year old -10. It would be great to exchange some info with others. It is great to see others doing this as well.

I was initially only planning to cover the leading edge of the main wings. However, after seeing how good the vinyl looked, it made the rest of the plane look worse. Thus, i have now wrapped almost all of the horizontal surfaces so far. Most everyone at my local airport, who were at first skeptical, are just amazed at how good it looks. It even works well for things like abrasion resistance from fiberglass fairings or extra corrosion protection. Quite a few surprises with this.

I am now considering wrapping the tailcone and main fuselage. I am still considering different strategies and layouts, etc. I will probably stick with paint for fiberglass pieces, just because they are more easily painted off the plane anyway.

It is hard to make direct comparisons with painting. They both have their tradeoffs of pluses and minuses. The true test will come in 5 or 10 or dare say 15 years time when it starts to wear and fade more. Will it still peel off nicely leaving nice shiny metal underneath? I guess only time will tell.

Jae
Hi Jae

Your post touches a subject a number of people have addressed and some have emailed in (I will respond to them also).

We wrap fiberglass daily - our vinyl adheres just as well to fiberglass as it does to paint or bare metal (thats the email people done) - I would say that painting fibreglass is fine but why not just wrap it?

Once you paint you are 'sold' to a particular color unless you decide to wrap over it or re-paint - now you are layering and adding weight (minor but it addresses other peoples comments) You also need to make sure the paint matches the wrap.

I'm glad you mentioned the corrosion and abrasion resistance - Scott likes to throw his keys down his wing when showing his aircraft off, I always get a kick out of peoples horrified faces and I'm sure he does as well!

As for removal - we are going to do a video at some point of us peeling a wrap, I know right now that the guys here at AW are literally sweating wondering if its there's I'm going to target....

Guy

www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replacing paint with performance.

Last edited by AircraftWraps : 02-25-2014 at 10:59 AM.
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  #35  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:24 AM
tsneidin tsneidin is offline
 
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Default Bugs,

I'm curious to know how vinyl holds up to removing dried bugs? Seems like it would take a beating.
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  #36  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:26 AM
jchang10 jchang10 is offline
 
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Default

Here are some random thoughts.

I am using 3M 1080 from metrorestyling.com. Ask for Tom. You can order samples for every option.
http://www.metrorestyling.com/3M-108...ap-s/19976.htm

The only pop rivets I have done were on the LE of the ailerons. What 3M recommends doing is heating the area at least up to 200F, let it cool down a bit so it can be handled without damage, work a plastic scraper all around the circumference of the head. Pressure and heat activates more of the adhesive removing the air bubbles. It turns out perfectly, which was surprising to me.

Actually, I did the horizontal surfaces first, which is easier. The hershey bar wings were the easiest things to wrap because of their flat surface and symmetry. It required no stretching around curves which is the hardest thing to wrap. I chose to do mine all in 1' wide strips which my vendor scored for me on their CNC machine.

I am doing mine over polished metal. There is no risk of paint failure underneath or anything like that. Vinyl will pretty much perfectly preserve the shine. One day i can peel it off and start over with shiny metal.

The automotive vinyl installers are VERY careful about what they wrap over. Typically, they want OEM paint with clear coat finishes only. It has to be both perfectly strong and perfectly smooth. Primer starts to get trickier because it might not be smooth enough. I found vinyl to stick fine on my sherwin williams epoxy primered interiors. A spot on my HS, it wouldn't stick though for some reason.

As a test, I took a vinyl piece out of the trash, put it half on uncleaned bare metal, half on the fiberglass windshield fairing right in front, flew some 6,000 nm and the vinyl stayed perfectly in place!

I am not sure about weight savings or not. I heard it does save weight. I think some of that comes from the consistency of the material. Instead of having thick and thin layers and multiple coats of paint, Vinyl is a consistent 3mil or so and up to 7mil i believe for some of the fancier carbon fiber matte designs.

I think worries about corrosion and other issues come down more on installation itself vs. material. A bad install job will ruin things more than any material. They have been vinyl wrapping cars for 30 years already They have been using it on billboard signs for even longer. It is only recently that people are starting to hear about them now. 3M realized a bad installer would damage their reputation. Thus, they have a comprehensive certification course to try and ensure better install quality. Unfortunately, this is mostly for auto techniques, so we are on our own for planes.

Also, it is very labor intensive. You can just spray paint and get broad coverage very quickly over a lot of area. With vinyl, you have to purposely cover every square millimeter of area, which takes conscious thought and planning for the least amount of waste and effort.

Scott, i love your passion. I wish we were closer and not 3,000 miles physically apart. I would love to look at some of your full wrap jobs, as i always wondered why i had not heard anyone doing this yet. I am still formulating my strategy for how to do this.
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  #37  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:27 AM
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Rhino889 Rhino889 is offline
 
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Location: Jupiter FL.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963 View Post
I have to agreed with pretty much everything you've noted about vinyl on aircraft, I think I did my first set of registration marks with hand-cut Fascal vinyl in about 1984.

question: why does your 'sales director' not want you communicating with 10,000 potential customers? How much more targeted and audience could you possibly have? I've worked in advertising, and can't think of a better ROI!

keep up the info stream, do it on your coffee break, or whatever, (tell him to go back to skool!)
LOL!

I'm supposed to be in the hangar directing the install

The installers only touch the vinyl. They all have years of experience dealing with luxury "rich guy" toys. We have this requirement because they need to handle our customers aircraft as items of high value... not just $$$, but also we pilots cherish our aircraft. I don't care if its a $23,000 RV3 or a $240,000 RV10... to every pilot/builder the emotional value of that plane is priceless. My installers will respect that as fact.

Anyways, I'm supposed to be in the hangar. Besides directing the installers, only the original directors touch the sensitive parts (antenna, panels, fairings, etc for removal and after wrapped assembly). Sounds easy??? what about when that RV6 antenna is beneath the right seat and you need to disassemble the entire floor system to get to 1 little connector... very time consuming

Besides... I'm a pilot/builder first. I will talk, fly and work on planes all day, everyday with a huge smile on my face... typing and grammar... no thank you

You guys will see me any place one of our planes are! Just today I video conferenced with my team. They said I'm having to much fun flying all over the southeast trying to meet people. I say, I am having fun flying RV aircraft around... get back to work!

The response has been huge for the VAF community. We have responded to every email within 6 hours. We called everyone personally that got forwarded to voicemail because we were talking to someone else. We are trying to be the company you know will get stuff done and do what we say.

Kindest Regards,

Scott
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This is my personal account and does not reflect the official communications of Aircraftwraps.com. We have retained a username for such correspondence. I post about formation, eating, aerobatics and pilot stuff .
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  #38  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:28 AM
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AircraftWraps AircraftWraps is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Low Pass View Post
Those who have had their wraps in service a little while, and are doing progressive jobs, please post some pics. I'm very interested in this as a "repaint" option for my tired 14 yr old paint job. BTW, I've researched the materials and application process pretty deeply. I have very little concern about corrosion or other issues. Kind of like the old Monokote covered RC planes, you just have to put it on with edge wear and streamlined seams in mind.
Low Pass

I was going to respond to the comments before but I have to say - I couldn't have said it better myself.

How the wrap is applied is key - its much like a paint job in that respect, you want someone doing this that understands the product and how it needs to be applied - application is dependant on use, aircrafts are a special breed and what we do with them in the air also needs to be taken into account.

Guy

www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replacing paint with performance.

Last edited by AircraftWraps : 02-25-2014 at 11:00 AM.
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  #39  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:37 AM
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AircraftWraps AircraftWraps is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dream Scheme Designs View Post
All-

Vinyl is a good way to go, BUT, don't forget that every place you put the vinyl it's not going to get sun bleached. So, plan ahead with a design that can easily be covered up with a new design in the same spot. You will have a bleach line and discolored paint over a few years after you peal the vinyl off. Again, vinyl is a great way to go, but just keep these I'm mind.


Thanks!
Jason
Jason nails it on the head perfectly here - so thank you!

I have seen 2 posts about doing a 'partial wrap' and whilst professionally I can say ' go for it ' I personally have the following advice.

Someone mentioned an easier sell with a partial wrap because it can be removed and the new owner can have whatever he wants, I am going to disagree here (I'm sorry I'm the argumentative one over here at AW).

Why? Well for me its this - when you do a partial wrap, just like Jason said you are going to leave an imprint on that painted aircraft, what you once thought was a reversible decision is going to be like ghosting on the sides of boats when the name is removed - your option now is to go back with the wrap you had or cover it over with a larger one (levelling again - what if the new owner doesn't even want your base color? The bleaching is now a secondary issue).

Instead of increasing the options you have limited them. Why not just wrap the entire aircraft and leave the blank canvas really a blank canvas?

Just my thoughts.

Guy

www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replacing paint with performance.

Last edited by AircraftWraps : 02-25-2014 at 11:01 AM.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
That was one of my concerns as well, they claimed it was no problem, and are sending me some photos of pop rivets covered.
I worried about those hollow heads filling up with wax residue and dirt, this will solve that problem (if there ever was a problem).
Lots of people wanting to know about rivets - we will update when we have a decent photo, I've tried to convince Scott to just pop a few rivets in an old piece of sheet metal and wrap it but he refuses as he wants a good visual for future sake - it will come.

We will do a before and after

Guy

www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replacing paint with performance.

Last edited by AircraftWraps : 02-25-2014 at 11:01 AM.
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