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  #101  
Old 12-29-2013, 08:53 AM
humptybump humptybump is offline
 
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Craig - interested data. Thanks for adding to this thread.

Two more data points to add to this thread (in keeping all the data in one convenient place for readers) ...

A few months ago, I left some of my panel on one weekend while working on the plan and forgot to shut it off. I ran my Shorai down well below the recommended level. I used an old laptop charger (15.6V 2.4A) connected directly to the LiFePO4 and checked it every couple hours until is was back up to about 14.5V. It took about 6 hours. It's been happy and healthy ever since. I've not tried a typical car charger. My aircraft electrical system is the stock alternator and wiring that Vans prescribes for a "basic" RV.

Recently, I left my plane sit in my hangar for 65 days (sad, I know). When I pulled it out, it started normally. I do not use any type of tender when the plane is in the hangar.

Last edited by humptybump : 12-29-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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  #102  
Old 12-29-2013, 09:07 AM
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Rhino889 Rhino889 is offline
 
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I've used the Ballistic brand now for 80+ hrs. Slings the prop amazing and never an issue. I use the 3.1lb 325 cranking amp. I copied a MX2 driver on the field that uses the same for his IO540 beast. I've accidently fully discharged the battery and charged it back with a trickle charger about 40 hrs ago. No issues found.

I torture tested a 2lb 240 cranking amp ballistic before installing my current version.

I discharged the battery then charged it at 15.6 volts under "slow" on a snap-on professional grade charger. I could not detect any issues at this point (there might have been and just not visible yet)

I discharged the battery again and this time charged it back at 15.6volts and "rapid" charge on the snap-on charger. (skipped the medium setting) The battery was left charging for 12 hours (300% greater then planned flight times)

No fire or explosion (bummer :roll eyes

There was deforming and bulging however. The battery no longer held a charge after this stage.





I installed my 3.1lb battery after this test. I keep my charge system in the low 14volt range.

I do not support or advocate anyone using any battery type. Do what you as the builder and pilot in command determine to be safe. (I've had this information for awhile and just didn't post because I'm not an electrical engineer.) I fly jets and wrap airplanes in vinyl.

(sucks that we gotta worry about sharing information publicly)
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  #103  
Old 12-29-2013, 09:44 AM
daviid daviid is offline
 
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Location: Plainville, CT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino889 View Post
I've used the Ballistic brand now for 80+ hrs. Slings the prop amazing and never an issue. I use the 3.1lb 325 cranking amp. I copied a MX2 driver on the field that uses the same for his IO540 beast. I've accidently fully discharged the battery and charged it back with a trickle charger about 40 hrs ago. No issues found.

I torture tested a 2lb 240 cranking amp ballistic before installing my current version.

I discharged the battery then charged it at 15.6 volts under "slow" on a snap-on professional grade charger. I could not detect any issues at this point (there might have been and just not visible yet)

I discharged the battery again and this time charged it back at 15.6volts and "rapid" charge on the snap-on charger. (skipped the medium setting) The battery was left charging for 12 hours (300% greater then planned flight times)

No fire or explosion (bummer :roll eyes

There was deforming and bulging however. The battery no longer held a charge after this stage.





I installed my 3.1lb battery after this test. I keep my charge system in the low 14volt range.

I do not support or advocate anyone using any battery type. Do what you as the builder and pilot in command determine to be safe. (I've had this information for awhile and just didn't post because I'm not an electrical engineer.) I fly jets and wrap airplanes in vinyl.

(sucks that we gotta worry about sharing information publicly)
do not use regular lead acid chargers with lifepo batteries. you need to use the chargers that are designed for lifepo. they are usually about $80-120.

contact Chip from Ballistic, he is a good guy and im sure he can provide more info
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  #104  
Old 12-29-2013, 09:51 AM
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Rhino889 Rhino889 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daviid View Post
do not use regular lead acid chargers with lifepo batteries. you need to use the chargers that are designed for lifepo. they are usually about $80-120.

contact Chip from Ballistic, he is a good guy and im sure he can provide more info
I talked to him. Ballistic states that NO special charger required. Just keep the volts down was his comment.

I only charge my current battery at 14.3volts and 2-3amps using a normal $20 ace hardware charger for lawn mowers. I've had zero issues in 80+ hours.

If you read the post, I intentionally tried to fry the test battery. When you are flying, the altenator is not providing a "special" LiPro charging system.
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Replace paint with performance.

This is my personal account and does not reflect the official communications of Aircraftwraps.com. We have retained a username for such correspondence. I post about formation, eating, aerobatics and pilot stuff .

Last edited by Rhino889 : 12-29-2013 at 09:56 AM.
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  #105  
Old 12-29-2013, 10:00 AM
daviid daviid is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhino889 View Post
If you read the post, I intentionally tried to fry the test battery. When you are flying, the altenator is not providing a "special" LiPro charging system.
10-4, I never understood the concept either. I use ballistic batteries in my race bikes and thought the same thing
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  #106  
Old 12-29-2013, 03:52 PM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
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I've installed one of the Shorai batteries in my -6A; pictures and descriptions of how I did so are here on VAF in this thread.

Short story: I love it!
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  #107  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:18 AM
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grayforge grayforge is offline
 
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Today, at the Seattle Motorcycle Show, I spoke with a couple Lithium Battery vendors. Here's what they had to say:

EarthX:
Their batteries have electronics built-in that balance the cells during charge & discharge, so no special chargers required. This is also supposed to prolong the life of the battery so that one cell doesn't become depleted before others, killing the battery early. The 36AH battery weighs 3.5lbs and costs $350.

Mirai:
These guys say their batteries don't need built-in electronics to balance the cells because they source matching cells for each battery. I'm a little skeptical that that would work. Their batteries are sized up to 27AH. Unfortunately, they are sized a little wider than the EarthX and Shorai batteries, so the 27AH size won't fit in my custom battery box. Weighs 3lbs and costs $250

I like the idea of the built-in balancing circuit, so am really leaning towards the EarthX batteries when my plane is closer to powering up in a year or so.
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  #108  
Old 02-17-2014, 07:32 AM
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TangoPapa TangoPapa is offline
 
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Default Charging

I've been following this thread for some time now and interested in the differing opinions. I have been using LiPo and LiFePo batteries in my R/C aircraft for some time now and have learned a lot of Does and Don'ts from my experiences. First off I truly dislike LiPo batteries because of there volatile nature, but I do like LiFePo batteries for there stable nature. They do need to be cared for however,and will not tolerate abuse. I have found over the years that batteries with internal balancers are the way to go, easier to maintain and longer life. LiFePo batteries do not like a trickle charge after they reach there full voltage and can be over charged if not controlled, this will affect the life expectancy significantly. My concern with a LiFePo in an aircraft would be how to properly charge it and with out a internal balancer the battery will ultimately be overcharged and could fail as a result. Besides from over charging, minimum voltage needs to be observed. Don't let the min voltage drop below 80% of fully charged voltage. If it happens bringing it back up could prove to be difficult.
With all that has been said, I am very interest in installing a LiFePo into my -8 project but it will defiantly have a balancer built in.
My 2c worth.
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  #109  
Old 02-17-2014, 07:56 AM
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RV7Guy RV7Guy is offline
 
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Default Charging part 2

I agree with Terry on this. I don't know if the battery in question has balance circuitry or not but really should have. I use LiFe packs in my competition RC sailplanes. They have balancing connectors as well as the regular charge plug. The charger I use is expensive but worth it for the features to keep the batteries perfect and most importantly, safe.

LiFe packs should not be continuously trickle charged. Think of it as a balloon being filled with air. It will only take so much!!!

I think some great stuff is coming in batteries in the next few years.
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  #110  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:25 AM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoPapa View Post
. First off I truly dislike LiPo batteries because of there volatile nature, but I do like LiFePo batteries .
Now I am confused. This means there are lithium polymer batteries that are NOT lithium iron polymer? LiPo batteries are just as bad as Lithium Ion? What?
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