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  #11  
Old 02-10-2014, 11:42 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomRoberts23 View Post
I am starting to assemble my tanks. I would like to know how the Fay-seal process worked out?
Ummm........

I know I'm aiming upwind, but hey, let's review the correct terms.

All methods with any chance of long-term success (including Rick's "cleco until partial cure") approach, incorporate a fay seal, a fastener seal, and a fillet seal.

A fay seal is the film trapped between the parts. It is only .001" ~ .003" thick in the vicinity of fasteners, and thicker where parts don't quite pull together.

A fastener seal is about the same thickness. It is sealant not squeezed out around the rivet when the coated rivet is set.

A fillet seal is the smooth band of sealant applied after the rivets are set, covering all the shop heads, and the edges of the previously fay-sealed rib to skin junctions. It is 50 to 100 times thicker than fay and fastener seals, and as such, the only seal capable of surviving even the most tiny relative motion between the components.
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  #12  
Old 02-10-2014, 01:50 PM
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I had good luck with the Fay method on my 14 tanks. I have tested them with auto gas, overnight at all angles. Only the cap leaks (and I've adjusted them)
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  #13  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Ummm........

I know I'm aiming upwind, but hey, let's review the correct terms.
Guess you knew that was a pipe dream
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  #14  
Old 02-10-2014, 02:55 PM
Stockmanreef Stockmanreef is offline
 
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I am using Van's sealant.
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  #15  
Old 02-10-2014, 03:18 PM
Stockmanreef Stockmanreef is offline
 
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Not sure about the thicknesses you came up with but here is what I did.

1. Used a Semco gun to lay down beads of sealant on the part and the skin.
2. used a spatula to smooth out and make a continuous layer on both parts. Probably too much sealant.
3. cleocoed in place, which caused a lot of sealant to ooze out.
4. used a spatula to make a fillet on the one side and the seam (like in a shower on the other side of the stiffener.
5. I then used q-tips saturated with acetone to get off excess where it dripped onto skins.

I have attached some pictures for people to make comments on my technique.





I did the initial sealant on Sat and Sun. I have the parts in the basement curing. I will rivet sometime this week.

cheers

ken
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  #16  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:16 AM
caapt caapt is offline
 
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Smile Rivet callouts

The callouts for the fuel cap are wrong. The flange varies in thickness. The plans call for the same rivet in all holes. The thick part of the flange needs a longer rivet.
Is anything nastier than Proseal?
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  #17  
Old 02-11-2014, 10:53 AM
Iluke Iluke is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron B. View Post
I'm certainly no expert but I question using the seaming pliers to squeeze out proseal. You would not want the skins to pillow back out to where they were before the seaming pliers as you could have a leak. I would allow the clecoes to squeeze what they can and then rivet, but that's just my opinion.
Ron- Roger your concern, but my thinking was that Van's instructions suggest that clecoes alone don't provide enough force and suggest squeezing between the clecoes with C-clamps. I felt the seaming pliers were a better option because they spread out the force more evenly than clamps. In my case a fair quantity of proseal oozed out when I squeezed and I saw no tenancy of the metal to move once squeezed.

The tanks passed air test (soap test plus several days holding a pound of pressure with no leak-down) and they fit perfectly on the spars. In the end, I'm just providing one man's experience.
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  #18  
Old 02-11-2014, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caapt View Post
The callouts for the fuel cap are wrong. The flange varies in thickness. The plans call for the same rivet in all holes. The thick part of the flange needs a longer rivet.
Is anything nastier than Proseal?
Probably a leftover from the standard Vans cap days. The flanges for the "standard" caps were formed, and were constant thickness. Flanges for the Newton caps have a machined surface to mate with the curvature of the tank skin, so they're thicker in the middle than on the front and rear. I also found this out the hard way...
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  #19  
Old 02-11-2014, 01:49 PM
Ron B. Ron B. is offline
 
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Ivan, if they passed the test they should be fine. My view on the clamps Van's recommend would be that they stay in place until the sealant sets up some. Just passing my view not a recommendation.
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2014, 08:53 PM
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KCBerner KCBerner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caapt View Post
The callouts for the fuel cap are wrong. The flange varies in thickness. The plans call for the same rivet in all holes. The thick part of the flange needs a longer rivet.
Is anything nastier than Proseal?
My plans show different rivets for the thicker part of the flange. It's a little tricky cause some are diamonds and some are squares on the drawing. It looks like squares rotated around the circle.

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Last edited by KCBerner : 02-11-2014 at 09:04 PM. Reason: Added pic
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