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  #11  
Old 02-05-2014, 10:56 PM
Naigool Naigool is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ollon Switzerland
Posts: 78
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Hi Lary,
I don't have pilot license right now! I'm right in the middle of the training process and plan to obtain it this summer!
I want to start building as soon as possible to fly my aircraft in maybe a couple of years and avoiding to rent the club aircrafts forever!
I actually fly a Robin HR20 with 160CV lycoming and feel already the aircraft to slow ( cruise at 115 Kt) specialy the climb rate!
That's the main reason I believe That the RV7 will better match with my expectation but maybe i'm a little to newbie in this sector??
Anyway, every recommendation will be welcome!
Cheers guys

Nicolas
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  #12  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:30 AM
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magiccarpet magiccarpet is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Switzerland, Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigool View Post
and feel already the aircraft to slow ( cruise at 115 Kt) specialy the climb rate!
Nicolas
That's another reason why I go with the -7. I am tired of seeing 500'/min. ROC in summer with a C172
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  #13  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:32 AM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
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Location: Perth, Western Australia
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The obvious option is to see if you can have a look at, or fly in both. I'm sure I saw a picture of a Swiss RV-12 a while ago, and there are bound to be some RV-7's around. Sounds like an RV-7 quickbuild might be an option if you're in a hurry (both building and flying). Even so, you could build a -12 much faster than a 7-QB, fuel will be a lot cheaper, and the handling will be much more responsive than the HR200(?).
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  #14  
Old 02-06-2014, 05:58 AM
Mounz Mounz is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigool View Post
Hi Lary,
I don't have pilot license right now! I'm right in the middle of the training process and plan to obtain it this summer!
I want to start building as soon as possible to fly my aircraft in maybe a couple of years and avoiding to rent the club aircrafts forever!
I actually fly a Robin HR20 with 160CV lycoming and feel already the aircraft to slow ( cruise at 115 Kt) specialy the climb rate!
That's the main reason I believe That the RV7 will better match with my expectation but maybe i'm a little to newbie in this sector??
Anyway, every recommendation will be welcome!
Cheers guys

Nicolas

Hi Nicolas!

It looks like the RV-7 is just the aircraft you're looking for however, considering your experience, I think you would be better off with the RV-12 initially.

While none of the RV's are particularly difficult to fly, the handling characteristics of the short wing RV's, such as the RV-7 are somewhat different to the general aviation trainers you will be exposed to and in my honest opinion not suitable as a training aircraft for low time pilots. There are also other issues regarding landing accidents with the A models flipping over on grass strips. Although this can be avoided, these mishaps are much more likely to affect the novice than the experienced pilot.

Both the RV-7 and RV-12 are very sweet handling aircraft with the excellent control harmony that RV's are famous for. The 7 offers greater speed, climb rate, range and aerobatic capability. The RV-7 won't burn more fuel than an RV-12 if flown at the same speed but it is unlikely you will do that. Performance in the way of more speed and climb rate will burn more fuel but, hey, that's why you build an RV-7. Contrary to what has been said elsewhere, fuel is not an issue as the Lycoming is certified to run on 98UL which seems to have a rather certain future here in Europe.

If you ask me, the RV-12 is the finest aircraft in the Rotax class, offering excellent utility and an easily achievable 120 kts max cruising speed. It will climb at 900 ft/min at gross weight and over 1000 ft/min solo. You can fill the tanks and it will transport two real world adults with baggage around 800 km before needing to refuel. It is an absolute joy to fly with direct fingertip responsiveness and a good introduction to the world of RV's. It is very easy to fly and suitable for the low time pilot.

You can realistically complete an RV-12 in under 1000 hours with priming the inside as most Europeans do. This is about half the time you will need to build an RV-7 QB.

By the time you get bored with your RV-12, if that ever happens, you will be ready for the RV-7 or its successor!

Last edited by Mounz : 02-06-2014 at 08:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:43 AM
Naigool Naigool is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ollon Switzerland
Posts: 78
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Hi Mounz,
That was exactly the only reason I hesitate to order the Rv7A now... In annoter hand I would need at least 2-3 years to complete the RV7A building and will have around 200 hours of flight experience at this moment.... Hard to decide!
I'm not really sure the Rv7A will be more difficult to land or fly than my actual training aircraft, A robin HR-200 with lycoming 160 HP and only 20 deg. Of flaps... Really difficult to slow down to 65 Kt for landing!
Other opinions are welcome!
Thanks guys
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  #16  
Old 02-06-2014, 03:30 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
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I know you are considering building, but you may be able to buy a completed 7 or 12 for less than what it would cost to build. I could buy an RV-12 here for considerably less than what it has cost to build mine. That doesn't concern me because I wanted the experience of building and being able to do my own maintenance, but if you want to get flying quickly, buying may be the quickest and cheapest option.
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:11 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
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Location: Estes Park, CO
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Nicolas
I think a ride (if you can find one) will resolve the decision really quick!
Try posting to the General Discussions forum. I'll bet someone will offer.
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  #18  
Old 02-06-2014, 04:34 PM
Mounz Mounz is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigool View Post
Hi Mounz,
That was exactly the only reason I hesitate to order the Rv7A now... In annoter hand I would need at least 2-3 years to complete the RV7A building and will have around 200 hours of flight experience at this moment.... Hard to decide!
I'm not really sure the Rv7A will be more difficult to land or fly than my actual training aircraft, A robin HR-200 with lycoming 160 HP and only 20 deg. Of flaps... Really difficult to slow down to 65 Kt for landing!
Other opinions are welcome!
Thanks guys
Nicolas!

I flew the predecessor, the HR-200-120. It is very underpowered but a nice trainer in its day. Believe me, an RV-7 especially with a constant speed prop is a lot of airplane for a new pilot. Things happen very quickly on takeoff and it is a very different aircraft to land than a Robin. I occasionally fly a DR-300 Remy with the 180 hp Lycoming and it is a comparatively docile aircraft. In spite of it's very primitive and not very effective flaps it is a very easy aircraft to fly. It has a very rugged undercarriage which will put up with much abuse from a student pilot. The RV undercarriage is relatively flimsy and is more suited to an experienced and practiced pilot.

The RV-7 is a very different aircraft with its low aspect ratio wings and more induced drag at approach speeds. If you are planning to build/buy an RV-7A, research the flip-over landing accidents on soft airfields. If you want a tail dragger, you will obviously make sure you know how to fly one. 200 flying hours will be a respectable basis to start out with an RV-7. My opinion is still that you will not be disappointed with the RV-12 and it will be a good basis to gather experience before you transfer to the 7. If you sell your twelve in Europe, you should be able to have enough money to by a complete RV-7 kit with comparable engine and avionics.

I learned to fly on AT-6's with the military and am just short of retiring with as an airline captain with a major European airline. I live in Germany and if you value my opinion, you are welcome to drop me an e-mail and we can chat. I am busy building my own RV-7 and had the opportunity of flying other RV's including the RV-7 and the RV-12. I will be glad to share my experience with you.

Let's chat!

Regards
Roger
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2014, 08:23 AM
Naigool Naigool is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Ollon Switzerland
Posts: 78
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Hi folks,
I'm really concerned on what Roger said and recommend to me... Is there any "new" pilot with less than 200 hours of flight experience owning and flying a RV7A ??? I'm now very confused and very close to change mind!
Thank for all recommandation guys
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2014, 09:43 AM
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rmartingt rmartingt is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naigool View Post
Hi folks,
I'm really concerned on what Roger said and recommend to me... Is there any "new" pilot with less than 200 hours of flight experience owning and flying a RV7A ??? I'm now very confused and very close to change mind!
Thank for all recommandation guys
One data point:

I started transitioning to my dad's RV-6 as a newly-minted private pilot with about 50 hours in old Cessna 150s. That transition included learning to fly a tailwheel, basic aerobatics, unusual attitudes, formation, spins , and various other learning opportunities from my dad and the other guys at the airport (whose combined flying time probably added up to longer than I'd been alive). In total, it took about another 40-50 hours of flying on and off with Dad before he felt comfortable letting me do a formal tailwheel signoff with a CFI and then taking his still-new airplane around the pattern myself.

Over the next two years or so before finishing school and moving away, I logged another 80 hours or so PIC. In the seven years after, I've probably gotten about 10, and most of that was flying every other leg to Oshkosh and back last year.
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