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  #11  
Old 01-20-2014, 05:31 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
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Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
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The RV 3 was produced long before Vans went to CAD/CAM production, and therefore the spars most likely will not simply bolt up to the existing fuse.

Best bet is to call Vans, I doubt if this is the first time the subject has come up.

Also, you could try calling Phlogiston and see if they have any ideas. They make the spars for Vans. http://www.phlogistonproducts.com/Services.html

If I were doing this job, I would seriously consider replacing the spar carrythrough setup in the fuse, yes a lot of work, but well worth it IMHO.

Good luck, keep us informed if you go ahead with this, and please show your work here for anybody who will follow in your footsteps.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #12  
Old 01-20-2014, 06:48 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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If you were going to put a "B" (modern) wing on the airplane, you'd need a new center section and bulkhead - and Van's is set up to sell that as a kit if I recall correctly. It will be a bit of work - but certainly not impossible.
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RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
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  #13  
Old 01-21-2014, 07:58 PM
AcroGuy AcroGuy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Buffalo
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Default RV-3A Designation

I am considering the purchase of an RV-3, which has implemented Van's change notices CH-1 (aft spar & wing root rib mods) & CH-2 (main spar mods).

The unofficial RV-3 website includes links to Van's CN-1 & CN-2 change notices, as well as the early correspondence between Van and the FAA. This correspondence includes the original 3/24/81 GENOT (#8600-14, RWA 1/40 SVC B). This GENOT basically says that all RV-3 aircraft are prohibited from aerobatics, period. A follow-up GENOT was published 5/22/82 (#8600.25, RWA 2/100 SVC B), which supposedly outlines the procedure for lifting the aerobatic ban, for an individual airplane. Unfortunately, I cannot find a copy of this second GENOT (it does not appear in the GENOT list in faa.gov). I'm guessing that you must first implement CN-1 & CN-2, verify 6 G capability by flight testing, then apply to the FAA for a new airworthiness certificate, redesignating your RV-3 as an RV-3A.

Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin ACE-99-10 (Nov 24,1998) mentions the 2 GENOTS, but does not tell you how to get copies. This SAIB lists the Chicago Aircraft Certification Office as the FAA contact, but they are not answering their telephone (847-294-7358). Can anyone tell me how to get a copy of the second GENOT, or offer any more information on the subject?
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  #14  
Old 01-21-2014, 08:00 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Default Welcome to VAF!

Thomas, welcome to VAF.

Check with the good folks at Vans Aircraft, I suspect they will have the info you are looking for.
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Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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  #15  
Old 01-22-2014, 11:25 AM
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REHughes REHughes is offline
 
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Location: Polson MT (8S1)
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Default RV-3A Designation

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcroGuy View Post
I am considering the purchase of an RV-3, which has implemented Van's change notices CH-1 (aft spar & wing root rib mods) & CH-2 (main spar mods).

The unofficial RV-3 website includes links to Van's CN-1 & CN-2 change notices, as well as the early correspondence between Van and the FAA. This correspondence includes the original 3/24/81 GENOT (#8600-14, RWA 1/40 SVC B). This GENOT basically says that all RV-3 aircraft are prohibited from aerobatics, period. A follow-up GENOT was published 5/22/82 (#8600.25, RWA 2/100 SVC B), which supposedly outlines the procedure for lifting the aerobatic ban, for an individual airplane. Unfortunately, I cannot find a copy of this second GENOT (it does not appear in the GENOT list in faa.gov). I'm guessing that you must first implement CN-1 & CN-2, verify 6 G capability by flight testing, then apply to the FAA for a new airworthiness certificate, redesignating your RV-3 as an RV-3A.

Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin ACE-99-10 (Nov 24,1998) mentions the 2 GENOTS, but does not tell you how to get copies. This SAIB lists the Chicago Aircraft Certification Office as the FAA contact, but they are not answering their telephone (847-294-7358). Can anyone tell me how to get a copy of the second GENOT, or offer any more information on the subject?
The first line of the 1982 Van's CN-1 Notice states, "Purpose: To specify airframe alterations required on VAN'S AIRCRAFT RV-3 airplanes for re-designation to model RV-3A for the purpose of exempting them from limitations dictated by FAA GENOT RWA 1/40 SVC B, dated Mar. 24, 1981."

I could not find any references to the May 1982 GENOT that you refer to, but letters back and forth from the FAA Great Lakes Region to Van resulted in the recommendation of following procedure:
Perform CN-1, then apply for a new Airworthiness Certificate, incorporating the Operating Limitations listed by Van in the CN-1 document, plus any other local limits that may apply, and re-designate the aircraft as an RV-3A.

The CN-2 Notice in 1997 was more in the nature of a Service Bulletin, Mandatory For Aerobatic Flight, with no change in aircraft designation. I am not sure how the various local FAA offices now handle the CN-2 for an aircraft designated as an RV-3A, perhaps as a Major Modification, but there would probably be some new Phase 1 testing requirements. I am sure it would vary from region to region.

The prior or coincident completion of the CN-1 Change is a requirement of the CN-2 Change for Type I (1/8" lamination) spar wings. However, if an aircraft had incorporated the CN-1 airframe changes back in the old days, but the designation had never been changed to an RV-3A via a new Airworthiness Certificate, the original GENOT would still be limiting, and new Airworthiness/ Op Limits/ Phase I, II testing, and a change to RV-3A designation would now be required.
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  #16  
Old 01-22-2014, 05:17 PM
AcroGuy AcroGuy is offline
 
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Location: Buffalo
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Default Thanks Robert

This is what I suspected. Do I apply for a new airworthiness certificate through the Chicago office or the one that covers my area, Western New York State?

Regards,
Pete Neal
Buffalo, NY
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  #17  
Old 01-22-2014, 06:17 PM
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REHughes REHughes is offline
 
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Default FSDO

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcroGuy View Post
This is what I suspected. Do I apply for a new airworthiness certificate through the Chicago office or the one that covers my area, Western New York State?

Regards,
Pete Neal
Buffalo, NY
Pete, I would check with some homebuilders in your area and see if a local FSDO has handled some or all of their recent certificate processes. (Hopefully someone on this list from the Buffalo area will chime in here).

From the map at http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...x.cfm?state=NY
it looks like the Rochester office is the closest.

There are some variations in the process that relate to the date of issue of the current Airworthiness Certificate. Prior to the 90's, almost any major change to an EAB aircraft required a new Airworthiness Cert, but more recent dates will often allow a major change to be made, followed by a logbook entry and re-entry into an appropriate Phase I test program. That might be a moot point if the airplane you are considering never actually completed the re-designation process to RV-3A status.

I was disappointed a few years ago when I found that because my airplane's Airworthiness Cert was from the early 80's, I would have to start from scratch when replacing a C-90-8 with an O-200, but my local FSDO helped me to handle the whole re-certification process in a pretty painless manner.

Good luck on your efforts. It is rare to find a nice RV-3 or RV-3A for sale that has had the CN-2 spar mods performed.
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2014, 06:36 AM
AcroGuy AcroGuy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 5
Default Rochester FSDO to the Rescue

The logbook of the RV-3 that I'm buying has a signed entry by an A&I that CN-2 was performed. There is no entry concerning CN-1. The seller has made some visual checks for me, which confirm that key features of CN-1 are in place (e.g. rear spar attachment bolt is now in double shear). So it appears that CN-1 was included in the original build, but the builder's log was never passed on to subsequent buyers.

Earlier this week, I emailed the Rochester FSDO, describing my problem. The next day, I received a phone call from an FAA inspector, who told me that his boss had assigned him to help through the RV-3/3A redesignation process. He outlined the overall process and my options for documenting the details of the CN-1 mods. He then said that he would get back to me after he acquainted himself with CN-1 and its history. I'm impressed! Wouldn't it be great if all of our civil servants had that kind of attitude?
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