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01-11-2014, 07:34 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Watford UK
Posts: 120
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External annunciators
Im fitting a dynon SV and wondered if there is a need for external warning lights? I see others have fitted these - does the SV not display warnings?
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SB RV 7A IO360 lycoming and Hartzell CS prop
First flight October 2015
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01-11-2014, 08:06 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 143
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Warning Lights
When something is going wrong, you have a "Warning Light" that lights up in the right hand bottom of your screen. Press the button below and you get a listing of issues so in my mind - not really needed. You also get a "Warning" audio alert that indicates you should heed the warning light and press button underneath to see what's going on. 
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Jim Potter - Ramona, CA
RV9A Owner- landed it at Osh on yellow dot 
Previous Owner of 1940 J3 Cub
Currently Building RV14a
jim.potter@cox.net
Once you have tasted flight you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return - Leonardo DaVinci
"There's a big difference between a pilot and an aviator. One is a technician, the other is an artist in love with flight." - Elrey B. Jeppesen
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01-11-2014, 11:33 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
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Do you absolutely need it? No. But in my opinion it is a very good to have. The regular SV indication is in the bottom right part of the screen and, unless you have the audio also connected, easily overlooked.
I placed external annunciators above the SV display in my regular line of sight/scan area. Amazing how quickly it brings your attention to the alarm.
My 2 cents.

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01-11-2014, 12:40 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Locust, NC
Posts: 440
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There is no reason not to connect the audio, it does a good job announcing any of a host of alerts. I have had an oil pressure sensor become erratic over the last month. Having Betty say loudly "Oil Pressure" does get your attention at least as well as another light on the panel. Sensor replaced today, all is well.
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Dave
M20C
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01-11-2014, 03:54 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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I used to be a big proponent of annunciators, and have installed a number of own into my personal planes. That being said, they are pretty much dinosaur's anymore. The reason is that with a master caution or master warning, it's likely (almost 100% likely) that your EFIS / Engine monitor will tell you about any problems both on the PFD/MFD and in your ears long before you notice a light on your panel. This might not seem intuitive, but I've found it to be almost an absolute. Not only that, but all of the popular EFIS systems have user defined inputs for other alarms that aren't defaulted in the system (things like door ajar, canopy close, gear, etc..) that you can program. Additionally, most of the EFIS system will force you to at least acknowledge any of the warnings/cautions and will keep flashing those messages until you clear the issue (or acknowledge the warning).
We still install some for folks on systems that are independent of their main systems (like smoke systems, standby alternators, "oooops, I left the master on", or other user defined things), but as a whole there isn't much of a demand anymore. Yes you can install then, but unless you have something to test your light (or check it every flight), you might not even have a reliable lamp that lights when you need it to.
Overall, I'd say for the normal things that you really care about such as oil pressure, fuel pressure, speeds, pitot heat, etc.. the EFISes will be quite far superior (and likely ahead of our brains anyway).
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
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01-11-2014, 04:10 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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I have found that with single efis panels, the external annunciators make a lot of sense. The amount of room for engine and annunciators info on the efis makes it difficult to scan.
Also, you do not always want an alarm on status lines --fuel pump, pitot or smoke comes to mind.
It is easy to control the lamps with one of the annunciators controllers from MakerPlane, which support dimming and testing of any lamp polarity.
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V e r n. ====
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
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01-11-2014, 05:16 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Marshall TX (KASL)
Posts: 1,783
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In the old days, In the world of process control (refineries, chemical plants, power plants) stand-alone controllers and "external annunciators" (arrays of light bulbs illuminating things like "Tank 202 HI LVL" were the norm. In the 80s and 90s modern computerized control systems replaced these old control systems. These have sophisticated and capable alarm systems. The old annunciators have hung on in some cases for a few years but are being consigned to the ash heap of history where they belong.
If you bought sophisticated avionics, the best thing is to learn to use them in the way they are intended. Don't keep dragging along the ancient techniques and paradigms of the past. A "master warning" light just tells you to look at the same screen that is showing the warning anyway...
And incidentally, proper alarm annunciation involves both a visual and audible component, not just a visual one. Modern avionics reflect much thought and research in their human factors design. Embrace it. In fact, the process industry is learning much from the aviation sector.
Why do I have such a strong opinion? Search Amazon for "The Alarm Management Handbook" and "The High Performance HMI Handbook."
Bill H. RV12 N412BR "Sweetie" Dynon Skyview
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01-11-2014, 05:16 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlittle
I have found that with single efis panels, the external annunciators make a lot of sense. The amount of room for engine and annunciators info on the efis makes it difficult to scan.
Also, you do not always want an alarm on status lines --fuel pump, pitot or smoke comes to mind.
It is easy to control the lamps with one of the annunciators controllers from MakerPlane, which support dimming and testing of any lamp polarity.
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That's sort of my point....despite that we think about "scan's" or watching instruments, the fact is that very few folks actually will be looking at something the instant there is a problem. Most folks don't realize how much time you don't actually look at that stuff, even if you have it.
Status lights are sort of the same. A perfect example is the fuel pump light. It's a light you put in to see if the fuel pump is on. Since it's on many times in an RV (especially for injected folks - some folks do it when switching tanks), its a light that your brain starts to forget because it's often on...and seeing that light "on" won't necessarily cause you to immediately do anything; but, when your EFIS/Engine Monitor is yelling at you in the headset and on the screen that your fuel pressure dropped (whether your annunciator light might be on or off), you'll probably take notice of the audio warning and the flashing warning on the EFIS long before you notice the light that was on or off since takeoff. As a reminder to shut it off that might be beneficial, but then again leaving them on really doesn't cause any problems anyway.
Believe me, I'm an old fashioned lover of round instruments and rows of annunciator lights (and from our heavy iron days the MasterCaution/MasterWarning buttons/lights) but I've had to learn and realize the whole point of this modern gadgetry is to alert us about things we aren't looking at (nor even have displayed on the screen) long before we normally would notice them...even IF they were on our screens or on an instrument in the panel... The human brain is an interesting animal for sure!
Like I said, they are somewhat of a personal preference and we do still install them for a number of things as requested by customers. I do agree with Vern that the various controllers which exist do a good job and there are cases where these make perfect sense; I've just know the core engine monitor type lights don't provide the value one thinks they might.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein
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01-11-2014, 05:32 PM
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
Posts: 3,679
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On the different EFIS screens I fly behind the engine warnings are hard to miss. Some pop up on the screen and some have a flashing yellow or red box, as others mentioned, at the bottom right corner of the screen. Even without audio warnings, I always see the warnings right away, especially because they often flash. An external warning light, as Stein said, can get to the point of being unnoticed. Of course, audio warnings are the best of all worlds.
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Jesse Saint
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01-11-2014, 06:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlloyd3
There is no reason not to connect the audio, it does a good job announcing any of a host of alerts. I have had an oil pressure sensor become erratic over the last month. Having Betty say loudly "Oil Pressure" does get your attention at least as well as another light on the panel. Sensor replaced today, all is well.
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I agree audio should be connected if at all possible. But If you don't have an intercom in your airplane then it is a bit harder to get audio alarms on your headset.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalinHdz
Do you absolutely need it? No. But in my opinion it is a very good to have. The regular SV indication is in the bottom right part of the screen and, unless you have the audio also connected, easily overlooked.
I placed external annunciators above the SV display in my regular line of sight/scan area. Amazing how quickly it brings your attention to the alarm.
My 2 cents.

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In my case the annunciators are driven by the SV system, not independent annunciators. They just echo what is on the lower right side of the display but more directly in my normal field of view.

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