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01-07-2014, 03:46 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 846
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Jet
Lead the way Steve were right there behind you.
Bob
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01-07-2014, 10:53 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Western US
Posts: 98
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I love threads like this.
Eddie Andreni has a turbine under each wing in his P-51, Primo Branco. They are used solely for smoke generation, and I can tell you they do a fantastic job of some thick airshow smoke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ClnGZhCQFo
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01-08-2014, 11:37 AM
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fugio ergo sum
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Carlsbad, NM
Posts: 1,912
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n5lp
New Mexican, Bob Carlton probably has as much experience with this stuff as anyone. I remember having a conversation with him about the type rating issue but I have a poor memory and the links on the web are dead. I think it came down to working with the feds and getting a waiver.
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An update on this from the January 2014 issue of Sport Aviation where Bob does a report on the Subsonex JSX-2 jet powered kit airplane. "As of this writing, all pilots of type certificated turbojet airplanes require a type rating. Lacking a type certificate, experimental jets require an LOA (letter of authorization) in lieu of type rating. Since new experimental jets are somewhat rare, the requirements for an LOA in a new experimental jet are a bit ambiguous. Suffice it to say that some jet experience together with some sport aircraft experience will be required."
By the way the numbers are max speed 213 knots, cruise at 17,500 MSL 177 knots. With 44 gallons of fuel he says you can go about 350 nautical miles in 3 hours.
__________________
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
Last edited by n5lp : 01-08-2014 at 11:42 AM.
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01-08-2014, 02:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sisters, OR
Posts: 179
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Sean DeRosier
Quote:
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There was an airshow act with a couple of small turbines mounted in the wing tips, saw it at and airshow at Lake Tahoe about 10 years ago.
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That was Sean DeRosier of Fairfield, CA in a One Design he and his father built. He would taxi with the engine off using the turbines. I believe he told me they had 50 LB of thrust each. He was sponsored by Sammy Hagar's Cabo Wabo tequila. Sadly he died doing his thing in San Diego on 10/15/04.
__________________
Mike Macon
RV6A
Carbon Cub EX
VAF #201
Last edited by Mike Macon : 01-08-2014 at 02:12 PM.
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01-08-2014, 02:25 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Mike, thanks for the info, that is the one I remembered.
Google found a bit of info, including this photo.
As I mentioned earlier, tip turbines were used to make smoke--------lots of smoke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnRWDXIhj7g
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Last edited by Mike S : 01-08-2014 at 02:40 PM.
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01-08-2014, 03:01 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,791
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goal
That's a cool picture and good smoke!
The goal would be to get down safely if engine out. For normal flight the turbine would be blanked off with bullet nose and have a trailing cone to minimize drag to about 5 kt or less. The nose and trailing cone could be made of styrofoam and jettison before start but I'm not sure if that is acceptable, dropping stuff. For example, you’re over Lake Michigan and have an engine out and don’t want to get your feet wet. 30 minutes of flight time anywhere in the US should be able to get you to a suitable landing spot. An alternate approach to the airplane parachute.
__________________
Steve Melton
Cincinnati, OH
RV-9A, Tip-up, Superior O-320, roller lifters, 160HP, WW 200RV, dual impulse slick mags, oil pressure = 65 psi, EGT = 1300F, flight hours = 800+ for all
Simplicity is the art in design.
My Artwork is freely given and published and cannot be patented.
www.rvplasticparts.com
Last edited by Steve Melton : 01-08-2014 at 03:12 PM.
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01-08-2014, 03:58 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
Posts: 882
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Micro Turbine Starting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Melton
That's a cool picture and good smoke!
The goal would be to get down safely if engine out. For normal flight the turbine would be blanked off with bullet nose and have a trailing cone to minimize drag to about 5 kt or less. The nose and trailing cone could be made of styrofoam and jettison before start but I'm not sure if that is acceptable, dropping stuff. For example, you’re over Lake Michigan and have an engine out and don’t want to get your feet wet. 30 minutes of flight time anywhere in the US should be able to get you to a suitable landing spot. An alternate approach to the airplane parachute.
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The real issue that you may have with this idea is that I don't think these micro turbines start up very reliably which would not be good for an emergency device. I know that Yves Rossi occasionally has trouble getting all four of his engines to light off before flights with his flying wing.
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01-08-2014, 04:58 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,791
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motor assisted air starts
agree, starts are a challenge. higher altitude starts are more difficult. OAT is a factor along with airspeed. need to meter the correct fuel for starting and monitor the start and make fuel adjustments as necessary. at least motor assisted starts are easier than a windmill start and cannot do windmill start easily with a radial compressor.
starting behind a windmilling prop is another concern from LAMPSguy (below) but best to keep the turbine on center line and occupants and critical airframe hardware clear of the rotor burst zone.
__________________
Steve Melton
Cincinnati, OH
RV-9A, Tip-up, Superior O-320, roller lifters, 160HP, WW 200RV, dual impulse slick mags, oil pressure = 65 psi, EGT = 1300F, flight hours = 800+ for all
Simplicity is the art in design.
My Artwork is freely given and published and cannot be patented.
www.rvplasticparts.com
Last edited by Steve Melton : 01-09-2014 at 09:49 AM.
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01-08-2014, 05:40 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 374
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Couple issues
First, depending on how close they are to the prop, there could be some possible compressor stall issues from the prop causing the intake air to be disturbed.
I was "dreaming" about this as a "JATO" idea, put near the wing roots, small couple gallon tanks in each wing just for the extra thrust on takeoff. But then, I think it would be much lighter/easier to just get a high powered rocketry guy to get a couple rocket engines and just make a REAL JATO!
Then, I got real crazy and was thinking (wouldn't work in real life) to arrange maybe 7-8 of them radially around the nose, basically in place of each of the jugs in a radial engine...cowl would look REALLY cool. Maybe have a prop "just for looks", it starts spinning once the relative wind passes through it!
Not practical, but a fun exercise for the brain...would look cool in a comic/movie where reality/physics don't matter!
__________________
RV-? in planning stages.
RV-14 #140050 SOLD
Permanently willing to contribute fuel for RV rides
Helicopter ATP/CFI(I)
ASEL/AMEL Commercial/Inst/CFI(I)
Aerobatic Instruction available
Atlanta based.
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01-08-2014, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 370
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I have a friend in South Australia who modded an ASW20 sailplane to carry three microturbines.
The two side engines retract into the fuselage behind carbon fiber doors when they're shut down. The top engine is enclosed by an aerodynamically faired pod. It's far enough aft that it makes very little difference to the glide ratio.
Best climb with three engines is at about 45 degrees deck angle at 105 knots. Gets him from sea level to 10,000' in about three minutes. Then he shuts down and glides for 90 km or so.
When he starts getting low he fires up the centre engine. Gives him about 2000' per minute climb at about 90 knots. Once it's back to 10,000 he can shut down again and get another 90km.
50 litres fuel capacity in wing bladders gives him a range of about 500km in still air. Obviously more if he takes advantage of thermals along the way.
The ECU is pretty straightforward: One switch to extend and start the engines; turn it off and they'll automatically run through a cooldown cycle (pulsing the starters as necessary to keep them rotating until they're cold) then retract. The power control is a potentiometer that he's fitted with a volume knob from an old stereo, so it's the only airplane I've ever seen that has a throttle control that runs from zero to "loud"
- mark
__________________
[ Paid up on 3 Feb 2020 ]
RV-6 VH-SOL
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