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  #1  
Old 01-04-2014, 06:12 AM
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fl9500 fl9500 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hannover Germany
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Unhappy Please Rescue me - and my Motivation

Hi,

When riveting the front spar with a rivet gun (HS-702 front spar, HS-710 REINF.ANGLE, HS-714 SPLICE ANGLE) and the subsequent drill of a damaged rivet, an error happens. Besides drilled (the first time).

During the subsequent attempt to set right and left of the damaged rivets two relief rivets, a rivet head again been damaged and when I drill out the hole, it gone wrong (the second time).

Is there a chance to Rescue the components or should I order new Parts ? What is the best way to "match" new Parts with the other already drilled, dimpleled and primed Spars and Skins ?

Achim (sorry for the google-translator english)
PS: Will order a pneumatic rivet squeezer now...



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  #2  
Old 01-04-2014, 06:54 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is online now
 
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It appears that you have a "figure 8" hole where a flush rivet was installed too close to a button head rivet. The pieces with this type hole need to be replaced.

Match drilling parts is fairly easy. You align and secure the pieces then drill through the existing holes and into the new part(s).

A good idea would be to draw centerlines on your parts so the rivet patterns are uniform, and only drill out rivets which are truly awful. Van's has said repeatedly that drilling out a marginal rivet often leads to a fix that is worse than the original rivet.

Also, it looks like you are having trouble with button head rivets. I did too - it took me the whole empennage kit and a new rivet set before I stopped dinging the occasional factory head. More practice is in order, I believe. You will need to drive button head rivets in other places in the airplane where a squeezer will not reach, so you might as well get good at driving them with a rivet gun.

Don't let a few mistakes while you're learning the basic skills slow you down. It is like riding a bicycle - daunting and very hard initially, but once you have the hang of it, it becomes almost second nature.
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2014, 06:55 AM
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order new parts! Small cost for peace of mind......
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2014, 07:07 AM
RVDan RVDan is offline
 
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+1 for new parts. Also something to consider when drilling out a bad rivet. You only drill off the head, not through the entire rivet. If you drill only enough to remove the head of the rivet, then use a punch to remove the rest of the rivet you eliminate the risk of elongating the hole through the part as you have done here. Drilling off the heads required practice also. Have fun
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  #5  
Old 01-04-2014, 07:23 AM
Stalldog Stalldog is offline
 
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Joachim, same as what everyone else said. We've all had a learning curve to go through (not sure that learning curve ever ends ), so keep practicing. I don't know if you have other builders in your area who can help, or perhaps can attend a workshop of some kind, but that might be helpful for you. Otherwise, do a search on here for typical rivet gun settings for different types and sizes of rivets and practice away on some sheet metal. And, yeah, you'll like having a squeezer, but you won't be able to use it all the time, so rivet gun practice is a necessity.

Once you've driven all those practice rivets, take some time and practice drilling them out. I get best results if I first center punch the rivet, then use my variable speed DeWalt electric drill on slow speed to start and slowly increase the speed until I've got a good hole in the head (and ONLY the head). Then use my punch and break off the head, then lightly hammer to punch out the shop end. Don't drill the rivet all the way through -- that's how you end up with an enlarged hole. You'll get good at this in no time, and again it will be a necessary skill. No one's going to drive 14,000 perfect rivets each time!

If this is the worst problem you have with your build, you'll be just fine. Just be ready by the time the new parts arrive.

Later,
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2014, 08:38 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Herr Gothe,

I had trouble driving my button head rivets with the rivet gun. They were just like yours, after help here, I turned the pressure down substantially and then the driver would not hop off the rivet head. Start low on pressure (40 psi ?) and work your way up using these pieces as practice. I am sure you will find many uses for these pieces in their second life before your airplane is done.

With a little practice, confidence will cause the brain to swell slightly and work more effectively to overcome any little potential issues.

Happy Riveting!

One more thing - when drilling out the rivets, don't be shy about angling your drill over 10-20 degrees as needed to get the hole in the middle. If it is a critical part and area, I begin with a reduced size drill bit to begin. Also, contrary to recommendations sometime I will drill through the rivet shank (after popping the head off and ensuring the hole does not intersect the parent material) to relieve the compressive stresses. This is a skill you will develop slowly until you grab the drill and remove a rivet without thinking. Again, practice - practice - practice.
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Last edited by BillL : 01-04-2014 at 08:47 AM. Reason: added paragraph.
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2014, 09:13 AM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Default Welcome to VAF!

Achim, welcome to the good ship VAF.

I also would recommend replacement of the bad parts, and more importantly, you need to learn how to drill out a bad rivet.

The info from Dan below is correct--------drill out the head only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan View Post
+1 for new parts. Also something to consider when drilling out a bad rivet. You only drill off the head, not through the entire rivet. If you drill only enough to remove the head of the rivet, then use a punch to remove the rest of the rivet you eliminate the risk of elongating the hole through the part as you have done here. Drilling off the heads required practice also. Have fun
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2014, 09:15 AM
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Another way, is to get a longeron yoke and hand squeeze those.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2014, 09:31 AM
instructor_bill instructor_bill is offline
 
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Default There are excellent lessons in that piece you have there.

Replace some of the parts. But work with them as if they were going on an airplane for the lessons they will provide.

With the parts that you have left. Drill out and remove every rivet. Pay close attention to your technique here. If you learn this skill early, you will pay less in parts for the duration of your project.

From above

+1 for new parts. Also something to consider when drilling out a bad rivet. You only drill off the head, not through the entire rivet. If you drill only enough to remove the head of the rivet, then use a punch to remove the rest of the rivet you eliminate the risk of elongating the hole through the part as you have done here. Drilling off the heads required practice also. Have fun

Drill just far enough into the rivet head (be careful to keep the drill square and centered) such that you can insert a punch into the hole and gently pry off the head of the rivet. (#30 for this job) Now, if you've only gone deep enough to grab the head of the rivet, the hole will be intact. Ideally, you want to be centered on the hole and not so deep that you've elongated a hole. If there are not any pieces of rivet on the rivet shank it can now be punched out. I find that a spring actuated push-punch on one side and a cushioned tungsten bucking bar on the other works well for this task.

Once you have all of the rivets out. Inspect the parts to see if you'd do something different next time, remove any usable parts that you will build with and then Cleco, Clamp and rivet the rest of them back together. The parts may not want to stay straight. Fun.

These rivets may be harder, much harder to set straight. These will also be potentially too short due to the expansion of the last rivets in their holes so use some judgement here too... maybe a half size larger? Longer rivets are also harder to keep from clenching. Another lesson.

Drill again if you want to.

For the price of the new parts, you've got lessons a perfect tool box from vans can never give you.... well unless you take it back apart again.

Second word of advice. Seek the approval of Van's engineers before you decide to use any questionable parts. HERE, You may receive some well intentended but incorrect advice to forge ahead when you should instead do something quite different. Please don't let a language barrier keep you from doing the safest thing.

Your matched hole kit will accept the parts you've alread drilled... like the skins You shouldn't need to replace those. The only ones you will need to replace are the ones that have unacceptable work errors.
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Last edited by instructor_bill : 01-04-2014 at 09:43 AM. Reason: I always need to edit
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2014, 09:49 AM
Michael Henning Michael Henning is offline
 
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Hand squeezer with Longeron head... gets it done quick and easy and cheaper than pneumatic squeezer. If you still want pneumatic squeezer, still get longeron head for it.
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