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  #1  
Old 12-30-2013, 04:57 AM
chris mitchell chris mitchell is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: near Harrogate, England
Posts: 391
Unhappy What do I need to salvage?

Well, I have finally given up with the RV-4 fuselage that I have been trying to remediate. Every time I get something fixed a new problem turns up and I think it will be easier, quicker and possibly even less expensive to start again from scratch.

So now I have an empennage and wings, and have to match them up toa new fuselage. There are some parts - seats, roll bar, engine mount and so on that I can retrieve and re-use - but I think I will have to salvage the F-404 assembly to use with the existing wings? What else do I HAVE to salvage/ Rear spar carry through? Firewall?

Thanks

Chris
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Chris Mitchell

Repeat offender;
RV-8, QB, built, flown 150 hours, sold;
RV-4 - attempted repair, rebuild and remediation - abandoned and junked ;
RV-4 fuselage and wing kits - both at QB stage;
2015-2018 dues paid!
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:46 AM
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acam37 acam37 is offline
 
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Location: Lufkin Tx
Posts: 689
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Is the fuse really that bad? It sounds like I'm in the same situation as you, but I decided to push forward and fix all the problems rather than abandon the project.
I had to replace the rear wing spar carry through because the builder mis-drilled the attach holes and it looked like Swiss cheese. Well last night I looked at the left wing rear spar and it too had multiple holes drilled. I was really frustrated because I thought the left wing was trash. After talking to another RV builder he said it was an easy fix, so I feel a little better now. I was hoping that all I had to do to the wings was fix a few leaking rivets in the fuel tanks.
My fuselage repairs include replacing the entire empennage, changing out the two 1/4" x 1-1/2" flat bar attach points for the elevator (too many holes), rear spar carry through brace, turtle deck, canopy and frame, formers F-405 & F-406, instrument panel and gauges, engine mount weldments, and fuel tank attach brackets. And that's all I've found so far.
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RV-4 (N124TT) Sold
RV-8 (N269CP) Sold
RV-4 (N684ML) completed 3-17-19
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2013, 08:57 AM
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AX-O AX-O is offline
 
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Location: SoCal
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I dont have to plans in front of me. You have to keep the bulkheads that attach the wing to the fuse. Everything else can be new.

Good luck with your deccision. At the end, you are the one that needs to be happy.
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RV-4 fastback thread and Pics
VAF 2020 paid VAF 704
The information that I post is just that; information and my own personal experiences. You need to weight out the pros and cons and make up your own mind/decisions. The pictures posted may not show the final stage or configuration. Build at your own risk.
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2013, 09:50 AM
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longranger longranger is offline
 
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Location: 45G, Brighton, MI
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Vans might be able to supply undrilled F-404 bulkhead parts. Get some appropriately sized drill bushings, carefully locate and clamp the 404 bulkhead to the spar and match drill. That's how I matched my undrilled HRII center section to pre-drilled RV-4 spars. It might be worth a call.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2014, 09:21 PM
chris mitchell chris mitchell is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: near Harrogate, England
Posts: 391
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Thanks for replies.

Arlie - I just feel that I won't be happy in this bodged up repaired fuselage - its getting to the stage of being like Grandma's old broom, 50 years old and still going, 6 new shafts and 16 new heads. I had planned to replace the front floor, rear turtle deck, F412, F-411, the baggage ribs F-418, one engine mount weldment, instrument panel - then I found that the ribs that butt against the F-404 had been bodged, were not riveted correctly plus a lot of edge distance problems with various other areas eg flap weldment mounts - and decided it would be easier to start from scratch than try to fix someone else's mistakes. I'm negotiating with the seller for some USD - he and an A and P who inspected the plane for me assured me that it was built according to Van's plans and instructions and it just isn't.

Thanks Axel - that's what I thought tho I now have seen that there is a problem with part of this F-404 construction that will need another fix. I'll be calling Vans to see if I can get new F-404 components.

Trying hard to be positive, not get angry, and view that last few months as an opportunity to recover my building skills! The two photos should show a couple of the problems.....




Happy 2014!!

Chris
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Chris Mitchell

Repeat offender;
RV-8, QB, built, flown 150 hours, sold;
RV-4 - attempted repair, rebuild and remediation - abandoned and junked ;
RV-4 fuselage and wing kits - both at QB stage;
2015-2018 dues paid!

Last edited by chris mitchell : 01-01-2014 at 09:36 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-02-2014, 06:52 AM
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acam37 acam37 is offline
 
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Location: Lufkin Tx
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Yes Chris, I see what you mean. Rivet edge distance is way off in those pics. Mines not that bad. This is how I see my situation. I consider it a practice plane that I can use to refine my building skills. So if I decide to build my next RV there won't be any surprises and it can be built with minimal effort.
My -4 really opened my eyes when it comes to purchasing a used RV. You have to be really thorough when doing a pre buy inspection and negotiate the price accordingly if it's airworthy.
In my case I basically bought the engine and got the plane for free, so I'm not complaining too bad.
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RV-4 (N124TT) Sold
RV-8 (N269CP) Sold
RV-4 (N684ML) completed 3-17-19
KOCH Nacogdoches
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  #7  
Old 01-02-2014, 07:10 AM
WAM120RV WAM120RV is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Coventry. England
Posts: 614
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Hi Chris

Now I have put 2 and 2 together and can help further. I can fly up to Harrogate in my 4 as soon as I get it full permit cleared when this **** weather relents. I wish I had know you were buying from the states I could have got a friend to look at it and advised you properly.

Things to keep assuming they are Ok:-

Rudder pedals, brakes,gear legs,engine mount, sticks, torque tube, tailwheel weldment. The spar wing attach bulkheads but only for the purpose of allowing you to match drill new ones. I have a manual flap arm if you want one but yours might be OK or you could go electric.

As I said in my email earlier I would go fastback and semi rocket by that I mean a rocket front end but leave the standard size wings ( bigger tanks would be nice).... but the engine would be between 170 and 200hp.

They perform really well on 160 , but the availability of power is never abad thing.
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In completion stage of Loehle P5151
Built and now Flying G.BVLR Vans RV4
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  #8  
Old 01-02-2014, 09:35 AM
nauga nauga is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: AOTP
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WAM120RV View Post
Things to keep assuming they are Ok:-

Rudder pedals, brakes,gear legs,engine mount, sticks, torque tube, tailwheel weldment. The spar wing attach bulkheads but only for the purpose of allowing you to match drill new ones.
That's a good list. I'd add the spar doubler plates which could probably be reused even if you scrap the spar bulkhead - and they're already match drilled so you don't have to drill big holes in thick steel.

Other things I'd consider but certainly not mandatory: seat belt attach brackets, stick mounts, rear spar if there's no question about build quality. I'd rather drill these out than build new ones, but YMMV.
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2014, 08:30 AM
penguin penguin is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: England
Posts: 1,087
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longranger View Post
Vans might be able to supply undrilled F-404 bulkhead parts. Get some appropriately sized drill bushings, carefully locate and clamp the 404 bulkhead to the spar and match drill. That's how I matched my undrilled HRII center section to pre-drilled RV-4 spars. It might be worth a call.
It just so happens that drill stops are excellent bushings for 3/8" holes. Drill out to 3/16 using a drill stop/bushing, then drill 1/64 undersize and ream for close tolerance bolts. Once the centre holes are drilled and clamped up the others can be drilled full size in one go.

Pete
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2014, 01:32 PM
chris mitchell chris mitchell is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: near Harrogate, England
Posts: 391
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Well,life has moved on! I took the fuel tanks off the wings to find that the spar flanges are not countersunk over the nut plates but drilled right out. So the tanks are not held in properly to the wings and the flanges are missing a lot if metal....... The fix devised by Vans for over countersunk holes is only good for one or two areas, not the whole inboard flange. So these wings are toast. I just ordered new wing and fuselage kits from Vans.
Guess I won't be flying by March!!!

Chris
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Chris Mitchell

Repeat offender;
RV-8, QB, built, flown 150 hours, sold;
RV-4 - attempted repair, rebuild and remediation - abandoned and junked ;
RV-4 fuselage and wing kits - both at QB stage;
2015-2018 dues paid!
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