Who owns the runway?

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by n5lp

I always get a kick out of this FAA stuff (I used to work for the outfit).

"Additionally, §91.126 spells out the direction of turns for a non-controlled airport which states, “Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right."

The runway is designated for left traffic so I have to make ALL turns to the left. I am also supposed to enter the pattern on a 45. So how do I transition from the 45 to downwind without making a right turn?

The full applicable text of 91.126 -

(b) Direction of turns. When approaching to land at an airport without an operating control tower in Class G airspace--
(1) Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right; and....

It all hinges on what "approaching to land" means...

[bobnoffs]

soooooooo........in everyones minds would it have been appropiate if the bonanza pilot had announced his intentions and landed 2000 foot upwind of the displaced threshold or would that too have been considered unsafe?

[Jimboscr]

I was taught that the inbound call to a non towered aerodrome should be like this...Traffic (name of airport) Cessna 172 XYZ is 5 miles north inbound at 2500' descending to 1000' to join circuit downwind for runway 21.

Then the chance of 2 aircraft in the same spot at the same time is significantly lessened.

Cheers

Jim

[boomer]

Originally Posted by Greg Arehart

I had an event (don't want to call it an "incident") today that made me wonder about runway "ownership."

I was taught to fly in the USAF where we had very strict rules on radio calls. In the pattern we made radio calls with exact wording at specific positions. Mess one word, and your instructor (or the mobile controller) was all over you. To this day, I cringe at the "wordiness" and extraneous radio chatter at uncontrolled (and some controlled) civilian airports.

All that said, my military instructor told me one thing that has stuck with me for over 40 years: "A radio is made for talking. Sometimes you just have to talk to someone and say what needs to be said"

I can't count the times that I've had to do just that in an uncontrolled traffic pattern. In the interest of safety I just talk to the other aircraft when there is a conflict. In this case I believe I would have just said something like this: "Bonanza; RV. My apologies, but I am already on the runway and can't get off. If you will make a 360, I will expedite my takeoff and call you when I am airborne."

The other day, I was flying a practice VOR approach at Sulphur Springs (KSLR). Approaching the VOR inbound I heard a Bonanza call takeoff with a turn to the northeast, which was right toward me. I was at 2300' (1800' AGL) and began to estimate the Bonanza's climb rate and my distance from the airport. The closer I got to the airport the more uneasy I felt. I finally called the Bonanza and said that I thought we had a conflict. I offered to stay above 2300' if he would stay below. He agreed, and I passed exactly over him with about 500' vertical clearance.

-John

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

Just wondering - where is that defined in the FARs or the AIM? And how is it shown on the charts?

Trying to learn something here...

[Mel]

Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer

Just wondering - where is that defined in the FARs or the AIM? And how is it shown on the charts?
Trying to learn something here...

As far as I know, in the US, there is no such thing as a "mandatory frequency airport".
I have known several airports that have put up signs that stated, radios must be used, but it is not enforceable.

[longranger]

Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer

Just wondering - where is that defined in the FARs or the AIM? And how is it shown on the charts?

Trying to learn something here...

It's in Canada...

[OLDSAM]

A related incident, a number of years ago, occurred when I was landing at a rather busy uncontrolled airport. Like I was taught, I announced all my positions and intentions while doing a standard traffic pattern and landing. Noticed a couple of other aircraft, one ahead of me, and one landing behind me, but both were silent, making no calls. As I was taxiing in, and the following airplane was rolling out on the runway, I made some smart crack about the guy with the broken radio on the runway.

Fortunately, no one heard me, because I was the one on the wrong frequency, as it had just changed, and was indicated on the newest paper chart which I had not yet purchased. This was before online updates, databases, etc., since Loran was the hot new navigation setup at that time.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by n5lp

The runway is designated for left traffic so I have to make ALL turns to the left. I am also supposed to enter the pattern on a 45. So how do I transition from the 45 to downwind without making a right turn?

Simple, turn 315 degrees to the left

[David-aviator]

Originally Posted by Mike S

Simple, turn 315 degrees to the left

Sort of like the guy who was approaching a thunderstorm and decided to do a 360 and get out of the area.