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12-27-2013, 05:34 PM
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: Brisbane Qld. Aust.
Posts: 2,271
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Greg,
It sounds like you were not on the runway at the time. I may be wrong here but if you had backtracked the runway and sitting in the undershoot, you were not on the runway.
So no big deal.
As for radio comms, if only people would stick to the standard phraseology things would work a lot better. In aviation the USA usually leads the way. This is one area that the inverse is true. Too much sloppy R/T. It does not help.
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David Brown
DYNON Authorised Dealer and Installer
The two best investments you can make, by any financial test, an EMS and APS!
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12-27-2013, 05:47 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PORT ARANSAS
Posts: 419
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We had nearly this exact scenario happen to us a few weeks ago. Mary was PIC in the front cockpit, and announced that she was back-taxiing on Rwy 12 for departure. (No taxiways here, either.)
About half-way down the runway, a Pilatus PC-12 announced that they were on a "3-mile final" for Rwy 12. Yikes.
She expedited, but this guy was coming in hot, with obviously no intention of slowing down or going around. When we could see his landing lights getting bigger, she tucked our -8A as far into the turn-around at the arrival end as possible, and announced that she was holding short.
Whoosh! That big ol' PC-12 landed RIGHT over us. It was cool, and somewhat terrifying, watching as he approached, since it wouldn't take much for him to T-bone us.
I didn't like it one bit, but there didn't seem to be too many other options available to us.
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Jay Honeck
RV-8A N14EG
Port Aransas, TX
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12-27-2013, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Jeffersonville, IN
Posts: 393
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I am no expert but I was always taught even in a non towered airport to announce 10 miles out, then approx 5, etc. Waiting until you are less than 2 minutes away is dumb no matter what the situation and who is right or wrong.
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Jeff Scott
RV9A First Flight 9/30/19
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12-27-2013, 06:32 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PORT ARANSAS
Posts: 419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ty1295
I am no expert but I was always taught even in a non towered airport to announce 10 miles out, then approx 5, etc. Waiting until you are less than 2 minutes away is dumb no matter what the situation and who is right or wrong.
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In my experience, the faster turboprops don't have a lot of time to announce on CTAF after getting cut loose from ATC. I don't like it, either, but at their speeds, all it takes is a slow-to-react controller to not release them until they're on a 3 mile final.
(And heaven forbid that they actually fly a normal traffic pattern! lol)
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Jay Honeck
RV-8A N14EG
Port Aransas, TX
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12-27-2013, 07:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,167
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Even if a aircraft is released late from atc they should make Unicom calls on com 2 or 3. Some do and some don't.
George
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12-27-2013, 08:20 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hansville, Washington
Posts: 536
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"In my experience, the faster turboprops don't have a lot of time to announce on CTAF after getting cut loose from ATC. I don't like it, either, but at their speeds, all it takes is a slow-to-react controller to not release them until they're on a 3 mile final.
(And heaven forbid that they actually fly a normal traffic pattern! lol)"
Check out this collision between a Beech 1900 Commuter plane and a King Air in Quincy, Illinois. A long straight-in by the 1900 and fouled up communications with the other traffic at the uncontrolled airport.
http://aviation-safety.net/go.php?ht...97/AAR9704.htm
They don't pay them to burn the Company's gas, so they skip some of the niceties.
Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G
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12-27-2013, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: PORT ARANSAS
Posts: 419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NASA515
"In my experience, the faster turboprops don't have a lot of time to announce on CTAF after getting cut loose from ATC. I don't like it, either, but at their speeds, all it takes is a slow-to-react controller to not release them until they're on a 3 mile final.
(And heaven forbid that they actually fly a normal traffic pattern! lol)"
Check out this collision between a Beech 1900 Commuter plane and a King Air in Quincy, Illinois. A long straight-in by the 1900 and fouled up communications with the other traffic at the uncontrolled airport.
http://aviation-safety.net/go.php?ht...97/AAR9704.htm
They don't pay them to burn the Company's gas, so they skip some of the niceties.
Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G
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That link doesn't work anymore, but I clearly remember that accident. It was an unfortunate series of mistakes and blunders, leading up to disaster.
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Jay Honeck
RV-8A N14EG
Port Aransas, TX
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12-27-2013, 11:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Shorewood, Il.
Posts: 230
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I believe there were 3 mistakes made, possibly 4 in the original posters scenario.
1. Not making the back taxi report PRIOR to entering the runway. (You are not giving others time to provide info that proves your intentions to be a safety issue)
2. Doing the run up after back taxiing. (You are creating a hazard for yourself if someone is coming in with issues, or poor skills. Also making yourself an obstacle for that same someone coming in with issues, or poor skills.)
3. Landing over the top, while legal if a displaced threshold existed, or barely clear in a turnaround, still arrogant in my opinion. He was either dumb to assume you would not takeoff, or dumb enough to try to teach a (deserved) lesson to someone he doesn't know.
4. No previous announcements of x miles out inbound for landing XYZ, this may or may not have happened, wasn't mentioned how long the departing radio was tuned up before taxi. If it was on and listening long before the taxi onto the runway bonanzas fault, if not departing ac fault (if it was on why no call before entering the runway?) (unfortunately I know a few idiots who turn their radios on nanoseconds before turning onto the runway. You can talk to them till you are blue in the face and they will still do it. Just hope I'm not there to see it bite hard one day. I believe it may.)
Like aviation incidents, it's a domino effect. The first mistakes created the latter mistakes. Any mistake fixed and the the end result would have been different.
My opinion,
Mark
Last edited by RV Wannabe : 12-28-2013 at 12:14 AM.
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