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  #51  
Old 12-14-2013, 09:41 PM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
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Location: Charlotte NC
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Not advocating for or against a chute but the P51 accident does not indicate you can do the same thing in a RV. There are two important points. The aircraft was designed for a quick exit in combat conditions. Never going to happen that fast in a RV. The second point is that while the aircraft was low he had essentially no or very low rate of decent. Rate of decent in a low altitude jump is a critical factor in getting a good chute. The delay in getting out of a RV is going to increase rate of decent as well as put the egress at a lower altitude.
One last point is the distance from the cockpit to the horizontal stab makes it in my mind unlikely you will get out without hitting the stab. Perhaps a point for a helmet.
George
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  #52  
Old 12-14-2013, 10:04 PM
PIN 37 PIN 37 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Adelaide Australia
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I think I have read all of the posts on this thread relating to tipup canopies and jettisoning them. ALL the tipups that I have seen do not have the cut outs in the C-702 skin to allow the hinges to move upward. It seems to me without those cutouts ( covered by fabric I believe) I cant see any way the front of the canopy can move upward and so have the hinges clear the blocks that the pivot sits in. Am I maybe missing something here?

It would seem to me that breaking the canopy is the only option in a tipup
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Last edited by PIN 37 : 12-14-2013 at 10:07 PM. Reason: Another thought
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  #53  
Old 12-14-2013, 11:30 PM
arffguy arffguy is offline
 
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Location: Elk Grove, CA
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Pin, some folks did not install the canopy jettison handle and have the struts that hold the canopy open. That's probably what you are seeing.
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  #54  
Old 12-15-2013, 05:58 AM
David-aviator David-aviator is offline
 
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Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
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Airline pilots should wear parachutes and sit on ejection seats. Set the computers up for an auto land somewhere and adios. That would keep terrorists from thinking about taking over a flight deck, there would not be a seat for them, just a big hole to suck 'em out.

Who knows, the government may even be able to get rid of security check points and things would get a bit more relaxed for everyone while flying .

Seriously, parachutes are a good idea in single engine airplanes, especially in weather or at night. But their use has to be a design factor with the airplane. To wear a parachute in an RV may be a confidence builder but from a practical point of view, no one has successfully bailed out of an RV. A well designed and thoroughly tested BRS might make more sense.

My solution is no night flying, no weather flying and formation flying is for the young bucks. Done that, been there many years ago. I fly to relax not get my adrenalin up.
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  #55  
Old 12-15-2013, 07:16 AM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
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As originally designed, my RV-6 has the cutouts in the forward deck covered with 3-M tape, same as used by the glider folks to cover wing gaps. The tape is not noticeable and requires changing about every 3-5 years.
I have no struts and am confident that I can jettison the canopy if necessary.
I have removed it for maintenance several times and it comes off readily.
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  #56  
Old 12-15-2013, 09:14 AM
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ChiefPilot ChiefPilot is offline
 
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Location: Twin Cities, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
Seriously, parachutes are a good idea in single engine airplanes, especially in weather or at night. But their use has to be a design factor with the airplane. To wear a parachute in an RV may be a confidence builder but from a practical point of view, no one has successfully bailed out of an RV. A well designed and thoroughly tested BRS might make more sense.
Just so I understand clearly, your point is that to date no one has successfully bailed out of an RV with a parachute and thus wearing one is little more than a placebo. However, using something that doesn't exist (the existing BRS doesn't count - it's not been tested even by it's manufacturer) might make more sense?

Your statement also ignores the fact that emergency egress was in fact a design factor for the RVs - that most folks decide, on their own, to do away with the canopy release mechanism on the SBS models doesn't really change that. And you overlook the unfortunate incident already mentioned in which the pilot got out but didn't have a chute.

Bottom line for me is this: there is little downside to wearing a chute - if I can't get out when I need to then I'm no worse off. With a jettisonable canopy and a chute, however, my odds do in fact go up. That's good enough for me.
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  #57  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:02 AM
Frank Smidler Frank Smidler is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stoughton, WI
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Default Parachute Training

Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
I hadn't thought about it before, but I think getting some jump/parachuting instruction is a great idea....

For one thing, an untrained individual, when put into a freefall situation, will "fall wrong." You'll almost certainly fall back first, which is not a good position for parachute deployment if the parachute is on your back! Part of parachuting instruction is to learn to arch your back, with knees bent, and arms extended and held way back behind the plane made by your body. This will move your CG forward and cause you to fall "face first."

Second, if you're manually deploying your parachute (there is also such a thing as an automatic deployment based on altitude and vertical speed), it's very important to "LOOK, REACH, PULL, (and ARCH)." .....
I whole hardely agree that getting experience with a jump or two is a wise idea but I must disagree with what you will get from it. I have a 1000 jumps and was a jumpmaster and instructor in my younger days. First, you will not gain the experinece necessary to fall stable before deployment in just a couple jumps, especially if you are getting out of an aircraft that is in an unusual attitude. If you do a tandem jump, the most common first jump experience these days, you will also not get the feel of reaching for and pulling the ripcord. The most you will get from this experience is the feeling of falling and the confidance that you are willing to get out of an airplane.

The minimum expereince should be a static line jump were you will have to let go of the airplane on your own, look for the dummy rip cord and pull it even though the static line will be opening your chute about the same time you get your hands on it. You should do this 2 to 5 times to give you the confidence that you can LOOK for, find and pull the rip cord if you must. This is by far the most economical means of getting experience and will be the most benifit without becoming a full blown skydiving nut (which is OK too).

The third option, which you mentioned, is an AFF course (Accelerated Free Fall). This will give you more time in the air in free fall with two instructors that will get you even more comfortable with finding and pulling a rip coard. This takes much more training and is also a more expensive option. Again, one jump will not be adaquate.

No matter what sport parachute experience you may have, none to a 10,000, in an emergency exit from an aircraft at low level you should NOT worry about body position or form. The only thing you should do is GET OUT, LOOK, REACH, PULL. With only a few jumps, getting out of an out of control aircraft will be disorienting and you will not know which way is up or down. You could spend a 1000 feet (7 to 10 sec max) or more trying to get stable and never get your chute out. Recommending that someone get stable before pulling is NOT a good recommendation in an emergency. The best recommendation is to LOOK at the ripcord all the way until you have pulled it out. The rip cord will not be in the exact same place in free fall as it was when you were standing on the ground.

Hope you don't have to follow my recommendation.
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  #58  
Old 12-15-2013, 10:52 AM
arffguy arffguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 411
Default Static jumps available?

Frank, is there anywhere that someone could get a static line jump without being in the military? I have not seen that around my area of the country.


I'm actually afraid of going skydiving. Not because of the jump, but the last thing I need is another addicting hobby.
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RV-6A wings/fuselage
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  #59  
Old 12-15-2013, 11:27 AM
nauga nauga is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-aviator View Post
To wear a parachute in an RV may be a confidence builder but from a practical point of view, no one has successfully bailed out of an RV.
Is there any evidence that anyone has tried but been unable?
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  #60  
Old 12-15-2013, 01:45 PM
Frank Smidler Frank Smidler is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stoughton, WI
Posts: 473
Default Static line opportuinity

Quote:
Originally Posted by arffguy View Post
Frank, is there anywhere that someone could get a static line jump without being in the military? I have not seen that around my area of the country.


I'm actually afraid of going skydiving. Not because of the jump, but the last thing I need is another addicting hobby.
I know in the midwest you can still find static line training. Although most first jumps these days are tandems if someone wants to continue on they will have to do static line, jumpmaster assisted deployment or AFF to progress to solo jumps. With the first two you will still have to do DRP's (dummy rip cord pulls) to prove you can do it.
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