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  #11  
Old 05-29-2009, 04:44 PM
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jrouault jrouault is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 133
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That looks like the same power supply I am using with the CreativAir HIDS... mounted about the same as well. However, I do not have com antennas in either tip.


Jason
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Jason Rouault
RV-7A TMX IO-360 3-Blade MT CS Prop, Flying
Fort Collins, CO
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  #12  
Old 05-29-2009, 05:39 PM
Dan Blumel Dan Blumel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ogden, UT
Posts: 73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrouault View Post
That looks like the same power supply I am using with the CreativAir HIDS... mounted about the same as well. However, I do not have com antennas in either tip.


Jason
Try powering the HID(s) from a separate source (car battery). While HID(s) are on, see if you still have the same problem(s), if so filters in the power wires (either at the ballasts or the affected radios will not help). It is an RF (radiated) not a conducted noise problem in that case. When doing this test also isolate the ballast case from ground (the airframe).

When making this test, If operating the ballasts independent of the aircraft electrical system the problem either all or mostly goes away. The ballast is putting the noise onto the electrical buss, + - or both. Some times isolating the ballast case (metal housing) from ground can also help this. This way the ground wire is the ONLY grounding path (no ground loop is created).

One filter which should help or eliminate a buss conducted noise problem is available from ACS made by Lonestar, it is called the "Eliminator" ACS P/N 11-08055 or from many other sources LS P/N 122253-10A $110-$120 each depending on source. It can be located at the offender(s) or at the affected radio etc. It is limited to a 10 amp current flow.

In the end if its RF radiated, Cable shielding may be needed from ballast to igniter and igniter to bulb and greater distance from HID to antennas may be required. Just isolating the ballast case from ground may do the trick, so that the ballast neg power wire is the only grounding path.


Note: FAA DO160E testing requires both conducted and radiated noise stds be met. CISPR (automotive std.) testing also requires both types of noise be covered and the std minimums be met.

Last edited by Dan Blumel : 05-29-2009 at 09:45 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2009, 08:00 AM
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jrouault jrouault is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 133
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Thanks for the information Dan. When I get a chance, I will try as you suggest. Right now the white noise is not bothersome enough to make resolving this a priority. Flying my phase 1 hours is top on the list. I need to have all my flight testing done by the end of July so I can bring the plane to Glo Custom for paint.
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  #14  
Old 02-06-2010, 11:26 PM
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Dragon Master Dragon Master is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Henderson, NV
Posts: 35
Default Fixing the noise?

I'm just finishing up a Duck Works installation with the HID's in both wings and have a marker becon antenna in left wing tip and an Archer "J" nav antenna in the other (it serves as VOR, Glide Slope and FM antenna).

My question after reading all the posts is "what works to keep the noise out". I have a 530 and SL 40 for coms and with one antenna on top and the other on the bottom. I'm going to go out tomorrow and give it a try in the hangar. I'll let you know what happens either way.

Roger

RV-6 N200RH with 1000+ hours

Henderson, NV
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:25 AM
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flickroll flickroll is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Charlottesville, VA
Posts: 801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboeing View Post
It sounds like you have our MR16 set purchased from Duckworks. You shouldn't be getting that much(if any) interference. The MR16's are just about the "cleanest" system we sell.
That's what I have in my -8. The MR16's significantly reduced the range of my wingtip Archer nav antenna. So much so that I removed it and went with a cat whisker nav antenna mounted on the fuselage belly back by the tailwheel. That antenna works GREAT, as does my belly mounted bent whip comm antenna. I get noise in the system when I first turn on the HID lights for less than 10 seconds as the light warms up. I have a wig wag controller installed as well, and I also occasionally get a 'crackle' of noise when in wig wag mode. I think that is caused by an occasional bulb misfire, or by electricity leakage to ground in the wires from the ballast to the bulbs. I wish that part of the system was a little more robust - a shielded cable or somehting similar.

My ballasts are mounted with stainless screws is a similar fashion to Paul's. I am re-doing my EFIS system and had thought about mounting the magnetometers in the outboard rib in the wingtip, but am a little worried to do so because of potential interference from the ballast and/or lights.

One other thing: my HID lighting systems are powered by a non shielded conductor, and are grounded to the airframe locally. When I install my new EFIS system, there will be a lot of rewiring going on, and I'll probably run shielded wiring out to the tips to try to eliminate any power wire interference (if there is any), and also run my grounds back to my main grounding block in the fuselage.
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AFS 4500 EFIS & 3400 EFIS/EM
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Last edited by flickroll : 02-07-2010 at 07:35 AM. Reason: Added sentence
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  #16  
Old 12-07-2013, 07:51 PM
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mvidalr mvidalr is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Monterrey, Mexico
Posts: 121
Default to shield or not to shield

trying to power up this thread again.

This is my setup: RV-8 with Two leading edge 50w HID lights (used for landing), and Two Wingtip Round LED lights, these two pulsating via WigWag (all five items are Duckworks).

I am almost about to close the wing, so my question is: for each different light setup, should the wire be shielded, or it doesn't really matter?

Thanks!
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:23 AM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
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I have 50W MR16 HID systems in each wingtip. The ballast and starter look just like the pictures posted earlier.

In the beginning, they broke the squelch on both my 430 and SL40. I used a handheld radio to see how much RF was radiating (and try to determine the source). This was partially successful. The RF appeared to be coming from the igniter (the box in the leads from ballast to bulb).

I fabricated a grounded shield around the igniter with a wire and some aluminum foil. For me, it has reduced the RF just enough such that it stays under my squelch level after the arc is established.

I think it could be better. The next time I have the tips off, I will probably put on some more shielding, or maybe try the idea above about insulating the ballast from the airframe (my grounds go back to the firewall).

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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.

Last edited by rzbill : 12-08-2013 at 06:37 AM. Reason: added image
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  #18  
Old 03-26-2014, 07:04 PM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,692
Default GOT IT!

Yaa Hoo!.
I fixed it for good. Found by accident.
As stated above, the aluminum foil faraday cage helped. I grounded it to the airframe with a wire. Still had noise but it was less. I had the right tip off, trying to figure out what to do next. I was using a handheld tuned to ATIS and wanding it around all the HID parts. I moved the harness and suddenly the noise dropped big time. A little inspection showed that the aluminum foil was touching the end rib. Ah ha!. My grounding wire is not doing the job! I firmly zip tied the foil covered box to the end rib so there was firm contact between the foil and the rib. Noise was gone as far as I could tell with the handheld.

Flew today and confirmed it. No squelch break and little to no hiss during receive/transmit. Tower said I was 5x5 and I could hear them very clearly.

Another long term nuisance squawk FIXED. The list is getting very short.

Now I will start doing some night flying.
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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.

Last edited by rzbill : 03-26-2014 at 07:06 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-11-2015, 03:55 PM
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rzbill rzbill is offline
 
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Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,692
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Its been a year since my last post on my HIDs. I am finally doing some night flying in order to commute for work. I have gotten questions by the various ground controllers a few times asking what I was packing in the light department. Brings a smile to my face.

This is with the MR-16 jobbers in the wingtips. Works great, less filling.
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Bill Pendergrass
ME/AE '82
RV-7A: Flying since April 15, 2012. 850 hrs
YIO-360-M1B, mags, CS, GRT EX and WS H1s & A/P, Navworx
Unpainted, polished....kinda'... Eyeballin' vinyl really hard.
Yeah. The boss got a Silhouette Cameo 4 Xmas 2019.
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2015, 07:52 PM
RVDan RVDan is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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Yeah, night landings with HIDs is almost like cheating.
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PA28-140
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