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  #81  
Old 11-22-2013, 12:38 PM
N15JB N15JB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkman View Post
Its a nonesense measurement and is useless for the purpose for which it is being proposed.

I'm at exactly the same BMI now as I was 3 years ago, roughly 28. I have less than 14% body fat now (shooting for single digits), and have put on almost 15 lbs of muscle in those three years. It does not take into account anything to do with actual health, but purports to measure exactly that.
While BMI is not perfect, especially at lower BMIs, to state it is nonsense and useless is inaccurate. It is the rare individual with a BMI of 40 who is not morbidly obese. The risk of sleep apnea increases approximately 14% for each 1 point increase in BMI, and at a BMI of 40 the risk is essentially 100%.
I am unaware of data associating sleep apnea with aviation accidents, but it is well established that people with OSA have a much higher risk of auto and workplace accidents.

The FAA policy is misguided, but it is a mistake to underestimate the risks of an elevated BMI.

Congratulations on putting on 15 lbs of muscle. If your BMI stayed the same, that suggests that you also dropped 15 lbs of fat.

Jim Berry
RV-10
  #82  
Old 11-22-2013, 01:41 PM
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grubbat grubbat is offline
 
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Location: Ga
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Default Preceived safety at the cost of liberty

I'm all for improving our health through losing weight. I just have a problem with the gov't invoking added safety at the cost of my liberty. I guess since we are moving in a direction where the cost of healthcare is going to be on the back of the gov't, their justification for weight loss or any other item someone thinks up will just be up to me to either agree or give up flying. I wonder how long it will be before they say that eating three meals a day is too much and rice from China is what you should be eating instead of meat. Where does it stop?

Somehow I think I have fell out of the mainstream. I think I like liberty better....
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  #83  
Old 11-25-2013, 03:39 PM
WhiskeyMike WhiskeyMike is offline
 
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http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news...y221023-1.html

Looks like someone is pushing the correct buttons...
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  #84  
Old 11-25-2013, 08:09 PM
BillSchlatterer BillSchlatterer is offline
 
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Location: Arkansas
Posts: 571
Default OSA is a problem like it or not .... personal experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by N15JB View Post
The FAA policy is misguided, but it is a mistake to underestimate the risks of an elevated BMI.
There is a large body of data supporting OSA with excess weight but the best data is personal. OSA is not just snoring, you literally stop breathing and wake with a large gasp. Your wife will be more relieved than you when you get on one ..... if you need one. I have been on CPAP for years, now weight 175 and still use it every night. I know of at least a dozen personal friends that use CPAP treatment and I know of NO ONE who has ever gone back. The immediate benefit is just too obvious. Ask around and see for yourself. That says more to me than any of the medical statistics.

The difference in getting a good nights sleep after years of not is like a drug! After the first night, you simply can't believe how good it is to truly sleep all night. Sure the mask seems bad but I have literally panicked when traveling and left some piece at home. It's great compared to lack of sleep.

Someone also commented that every one that goes to a sleep doctor seems to be diagnosed with OSA. That actually makes sense because sleep doctors are specialists, you go there because you have already been pre-diagnosed by your regular doctor who refers you. Heart specialists usually find heart problems, cancer specialists usually find cancer, etc. It's the process not any kind of medical scam. (BTW, OSA is one of the easiest things to diagnose because the signs are so easy to identify...ask the wives )

Having said all that, I am absolutely opposed to more FAA or governmental involvement in our personal lives. It's not the job of the government to decide what to regulate, their job is to regulate what we tell them to regulate. I know..... that's simplistic.....

OSA is real, see a doctor but do it for the right reasons.

My .02 and my personal experience.
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  #85  
Old 11-26-2013, 02:13 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Today while attending what seems like the 12th followup visit to my sleep Dr.s office on the journey towards treatment for OSA, I saw a poster on the wall that said something like this:

"As many as 2 out of 3 patients with OSA that experience EDS (excessive daytime sleepiness) will continue to experience EDS even after being properly treated for OSA".....

All I can say is LOL!

I wish I had written down the reference.
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  #86  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:43 PM
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Mike S Mike S is offline
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Brian, first off, it is good that you are getting tested/treated for OSA, BTDT.

After treatment---------CPAP or whatever, the FAA will want you to have a MWT--- Maintenance of Wakefulness Test, to see if you are having any issue with staying awake.

http://yoursleep.aasmnet.org/Topic.aspx?id=36

The test is a joke IMHO---------you are put in a bed in a dark room, and then you are supposed to stay awake, even though all your life you have been trained to fall asleep in bed in a dark room.

If you have any concerns and want to discuss this, send me a PM with your phone number.

I (and my wife) are very glad I did the program, and the CPAP is doing wonders for me.
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  #87  
Old 11-26-2013, 03:54 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Brian, first off, it is good that you are getting tested/treated for OSA, BTDT.

After treatment---------CPAP or whatever, the FAA will want you to have a MWT--- Maintenance of Wakefulness Test, to see if you are having any issue with staying awake.

http://yoursleep.aasmnet.org/Topic.aspx?id=36

The test is a joke IMHO---------you are put in a bed in a dark room, and then you are supposed to stay awake, even though all your life you have been trained to fall asleep in bed in a dark room.

If you have any concerns and want to discuss this, send me a PM with your phone number.

I (and my wife) are very glad I did the program, and the CPAP is doing wonders for me.
Yes Mike,

My decision to get tested for OSA came a few months ago. I was pushed to do it by my wife and from another Dr. that is going to be doing surgery on me in January.

The good news is that I have never really had issues staying awake in the daytime. This was not one of my symptoms.

It's just something else to add to the mountain of stuff I send em each year!
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RV-10, #41942, N?????, Project Sold
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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  #88  
Old 11-26-2013, 08:32 PM
N15JB N15JB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post

The test is a joke IMHO---------you are put in a bed in a dark room, and then you are supposed to stay awake, even though all your life you have been trained to fall asleep in bed in a dark room.
Mike,

You may be missing the point of the test. If you have trouble staying awake when you know you are being tested, when your ticket may be on the line, you may also be at risk of falling asleep during less guarded moments i.e. long drives/flights, boring or repetitious tasks, etc. Excessive daytime sleepiness comes in varying degrees; anything from completely conking out(medical term) to a few seconds of inattention. People with OSA are at significantly higher risk of being involved with auto & workplace accidents. I can't think of any good reason why flying a plane would be different.

Jim Berry
RV-10
  #89  
Old 11-27-2013, 08:11 AM
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N395V N395V is offline
 
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I think the FAA, government, employer or any entity has no business or right to compel an individual to do anything healthwise unless it definitively has been proven that not doing so puts the general public at risk (ie vaccinations)

Having said that I would like to put my Drs. hat on for a moment and make a SUGGESTION to my portly (and select skinny) friends.

Sleep apnea is an insidious vicious unforgiving and deadly disease. It sneaks up on you as you age. The symptoms progress slowly and most attribute these symptoms to age, stress and lack of sleep.

Sleep apneas does its damage over 10-30 years and the changes it causes in the heart brain etc. are (at some point) irreversible. It leads to early dementia, coronary artery disease, heart failure, heart attack, cardiac rhythm disturbances, and death. If you don't die from some of these illnesses they are so debilitating you will wish you did.

The treatment for most is to lose weight (a lot of it) to where you are at ideal body weight. Medical treatment is obnoxious and leads to poor compliance. It involves wearing a face or nasal mask attached to a mini respirator every time you sleep (including naps).

Over the last 20+ years I estimate 30% of my patients have weight related sleep apnea. I refer ALL of them for evaluation. Less than 20% actually go for evaluation AND are compliant with therapy. The other 80% I have, sadly, watched slowly become debilitated and die prematurely.

Never mind BMI, as mentioned many times above, it is a crude and often flawed measurement let me just say: If you are FAT (you know who you are) and or have a BIG neck you should DISCUSS sleep apnea with your doctor. If you are fat or skinny, have a big neck or small neck and you:
Snore
Often Wake up with a vague nagging headache
Wake up with a dry mouth
Are sleepy all the time
Easily fall asleep at places and times where most others do not
If you smoke

THEN YOU SHOULD BE EVALUATED FOR SLEEP APNEA


Do not put it off! Your health and life are in jeopardy!

What is ideal body weight? Best way to determine that is look at your 8th grade class photos. You should look like all those kids in the photo that (now) look malnourished to you.

A crude calculation (no more accurate than BMI) is:
For men 106# for your first 5 feet in height and an added 6# for each additional inch.
for women 100# for your first 5 feet of height plus 5# for each additional inch.

Now I know all of you chubbies just ran the calculation and are laughing your butts off but that is really what your target weight should be.

This is just advice, heed it or ignore it. The choice is yours.

Have a happy Thanksgiving and start your diets when the leftovers are gone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea
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  #90  
Old 11-27-2013, 09:28 AM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N15JB View Post
Mike,

You may be missing the point of the test. If you have trouble staying awake when you know you are being tested-----------
Jim, respectfully to you, but I think you are missing my point.

If you want to know if I will fall asleep flying a plane, then test me while flying a plane.

If you want to know if I will fall asleep while driving a car--------test me while driving.

But if you want to know if I fall asleep in bed in a dark room-----------remember a guy named Pavlov and his slobbering dogs????

Testing for daytime drowsiness is not the issue to me, it is the method used to test.

The current test stacks the deck against you big time. IMHO it is totally non relevant to the issue of falling asleep during the day, while not in bed.
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Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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