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  #61  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:26 PM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s10sakota View Post
Here's why I ask. After reading stories about RV's flipping over, I have become very concerned about this. This is something I never thought about in my high wing with a steel cage. In fact, I've thought about it so much that I seriously considered selling my RV project and going with another high wing.
Without going and researching actual numbers, I have a gut feel that the vast majority of RV tip-over incidents *that resulted from otherwise normal landings* (ie. discounting off-airport events) are in -A models. I am completely willing to be corrected if someone has data showing that is not the case.

For off-airport landings, I am not sure I would expect either model to fare any better than the other for staying upright. Rough terrain could flip either design, given the right conditions. Given the variability of terrain when off-airport, the likelihood of a bump/hump/rock/tree getting between the roll-bar and the baggage compartment may be just as high whether you're in a tip-up or slider.

I prefer to think (rightly or wrongly) that as a tailwheel pilot I have to be (and hopefully am) more "on the ball" during landings... I hope that makes me less likely to miss something, and as a result less likely to end up off-runway where I may tip over.

Sorry to hear about the accident... I too am interested in anything further you may learn (if anything) about how your heads were able to hit the ground. Belts maybe not tight - check. What else... How close did your head normally sit from the canopy? Did you have thick or thin seats? I have Classic Aero's with no wedges, just the top part, and I sit about 2" below the plexi with my Lightspeed and 1" below with my helmet.
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1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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  #62  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:49 PM
jpowell13 jpowell13 is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 671
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Chuck,

Just want to say that I hope you, your wife and the plane are back to 100% soon. I've scared and embarrassed myself a number times in 400 hours flying airplanes. The best thing about owning an RV is that you fly more often. Things like landing seem to get better from the frequent repetition and the comfort level goes up. I guess I'm saying I hope to meet you at a fly-in someday before long.

Best Wishes,

John
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  #63  
Old 11-15-2013, 11:56 PM
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Eddie P Eddie P is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aptos, CA (previously Reno, 21 years!)
Posts: 247
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Another (nearly redundant) well wish to you and your wife, Chuck. And here's to being fully healed very soon; thanks for posting about this situation. We all need to be reminded occasionally of the risks and what sorts of behaviors we need to emulate to manage these risks. For me, I think I'll finally buy that glass breaker/cutter and keep it close by just in case I need to get out of a flipped airplane. No, I do not hope to have the chance to use it but this post got me thinking about this type of a situation again and how I'd get out, if the plexi did not shatter! Keep healing guys and be well.
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  #64  
Old 11-16-2013, 12:31 AM
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BSwayze BSwayze is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Molalla, Oregon
Posts: 955
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Chuck, I want to thank you as well, and wish you and your wife speedy and full recoveries. I'm a no-time pilot, so I'll be learning from scratch as my RV-7A nears completion. I'll be keeping lessons learned from your mishap in mind from now on. I have so much respect for you for posting this for all to see and learn from.

For those wondering about a canopy cracking tool, since the subject came up, I donated my first canopy for use during a chapter 105 meeting in my shop, and some demonstrations were done. This was posted here in the forums on this thread:

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...cracking+video

Scroll down to post #23
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  #65  
Old 11-16-2013, 07:24 AM
Chuck Hagerty Chuck Hagerty is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Lynchburg, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake View Post
Sorry to hear about the accident... I too am interested in anything further you may learn (if anything) about how your heads were able to hit the ground. Belts maybe not tight - check. What else... How close did your head normally sit from the canopy? Did you have thick or thin seats? I have Classic Aero's with no wedges, just the top part, and I sit about 2" below the plexi with my Lightspeed and 1" below with my helmet.
I have flightline seats with a wedge under the pilots side and with the Lightspeed on, I have about 2" before I hit the plexi (5'8"). I didn't put the wedge under the right side seat, so that side has around 3" of space for my wife. A person with a longer torso is of course going to have less space.

Larry in post #32 told us about how in car racing they pull the belts extremely tight. I'll be adding that fifth point to my harness and doing just that from now on.

Thanks Rob.
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First flight 1-29-13
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  #66  
Old 11-16-2013, 08:49 AM
JimWoo50 JimWoo50 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Chicago sw suburbs
Posts: 395
Default Thanks for sharing

And I hope you and the wife are back flying soon.
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  #67  
Old 11-16-2013, 09:51 AM
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ronrapp ronrapp is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: North Tustin, CA
Posts: 63
Default Tight belts

Thanks for your courageous post, Chuck!

On the subject of keeping the belts tight, I used to tighten the **** out of all of them before flying aerobatics (this is more in Pitts and Extra aircraft). Even today, when I'm done with a sequence I'll often have some bruising around my waist from the high loads.

Eventually someone told me that the purpose of the shoulder harness is to keep your face from hitting the instrument panel in a crash, and that it should not be so tight that, when inverted, your body weight is carried by the shoulder harness. The lap belt(s) are supposed to carry the body's weight when inverted -- if your weight is on the shoulder harness it can injure the back. This seemed logical, so now I keep the shoulder harness just a wee bit looser, so that it does not support my weight when flying inverted figures.

I don't know that this has any bearing on Chuck's incident, but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

Hope you and your wife are back in the air again soon!

--Ron
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  #68  
Old 11-16-2013, 10:30 AM
don.olandese don.olandese is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 193
Default i admit it, i am a wimp...

I flew a -9A a couple of years ago, and was amazed at how easy it seemed to land. this thread reminds me that a landing even in a nosewheel model can go wrong, and for that I thank you, contributors. I fly mostly a taildragger now, and like some others, I KNOW that can go wrong in a heartbeat, and for reasons I also cannot always anticipate or even always pinpoint. I am not actually scared during every taildragger landing: but it is not incorrect to say that I am WORRIED on final approach EVERY SINGLE TIME. this is not a problem, tho: as long as that is the case, I am not likely to get complacent and am likely to keep paying serious attention every time. I have over 2300 hours total and nearly 500 hours in tailwheels, but what matters is the next hour and the next landing. thanks for the reminders, guys.
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  #69  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:39 AM
TLYNCH TLYNCH is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mequon, WI
Posts: 114
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Thank you Chuck for sharing this. I'm a newby student with a new RV 12 SLSA and fear this exactly... 10 knot?!? Thankyou for the ref. to Vans articles. ...will read again. I just don't understand....you are farmoreexperienced....I'm getting pretty nervous about the same thing happening. Any suggestions welcome.

Glad to hear you and your wife are recovering.
Best,
Tim
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  #70  
Old 11-17-2013, 06:02 PM
myrv6180 myrv6180 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blairsville,GA
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If you touch down too hard and bounce and you can't put it down easy the second time touching, give it power and go around. Do not let the bouncing progress to the third bounce. Works every time.
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