VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-14
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-31-2013, 04:27 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 255
Default First step in and having trouble

I am trying to countersink the VS-702 for the VS-01401 doubler. The problem I am having is I cannot get the sink deep enough before the hole enlarges. What am I doing wrong? I have already reordered the VS-702 as the first countersink enlarged the pilot hole and then wobbled badly. I then tried countersinking with the deburring tool. With the rivet still sitting just proud of the surface the hole is already starting to enlarge.

Not a fantastic start to the project.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-31-2013, 04:31 PM
JanRV6UK's Avatar
JanRV6UK JanRV6UK is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: England
Posts: 470
Default

How thick is the part you are trying to CS ?

Can you not dimple it ?

If you put a scrap part on the back to act like a guide for the CS tip then you can CS the part with no "wobble" .. assuming CS is what you have to do ...
__________________
Jan

Slooow RV6, no hole, builder in UK
Paid up for 2015 ...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:23 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 255
Default

The vinyl didn't have a thickness on it and I haven't built enough to know the thickness. I also don't have a caliper. It says specifically in the instructions to CS so that is why I was attempting that.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:30 PM
Bob Kuykendall's Avatar
Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Douglas Flat, CA
Posts: 589
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeliCooper View Post
The vinyl didn't have a thickness on it and I haven't built enough to know the thickness. I also don't have a caliper. It says specifically in the instructions to CS so that is why I was attempting that.
One thing to consider is, are you sure you are countersinking the correct part? There are a lot of parts where you countersink the thicker part and the dimple the thinner one so that it fits into the countersink.

Edit add: The plans and parts lists will usually tell you what the part thicknesses are. If it's 0.032" thick, you can just barely countersink it for a #3 (3/32") rivet, but it's much safer to dimple it. Any thicker and you should be able to safely countersink #3. Any thinner and you have to dimple for #3.

Unless you have a well-developed eye for material thicknesses (which you will have by the time you finish), I suggest you buy a cheap digital caliper (usually $15 at VXB) and get a drawer full of batteries for it for $10 on eBay.

Thanks, Bob K.
__________________
Bob Kuykendall
HP-24 kit sailplane
EAA Technical Counselor

Last edited by Bob Kuykendall : 10-31-2013 at 05:36 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:56 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 255
Default

Plans don't list the thickness and it isn't in the parts list in the manual. There were only two VS- numbers. I'll definitely have to go pick up a caliper. I figured if Van's specifically said to CS it should be CS. I guess I figured wrong. The microstop is set perfectly as far as I can tell. The rivet sits flush on my scrap piece I used to set the depth but the scrap piece is also thicker. I will plan on dimpling it and the doubler plate when the new piece arrives.

As for having the correct spot. I quadruple checked and they want you to CS the back side of the vertical spar on the opposite side of the doubler. I assume this has to do with clearance for when it is attached to the fuselage.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-31-2013, 05:57 PM
Paul K Paul K is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 1,004
Default

I always test the setting of the cage on scrap pieces of the same thickness. Keep playing with the cage until it is absolutely perfect. Another trick is to CS on a piece of wood with a matching hole in it. If your piece has multiple holes in it, Cleco it down to the board and match drill the board so the rest of the holes line up. Helps hold the die in place and prevents wobble!

What Bob K said and you really need calipers!
__________________
Paul K
West Michigan

Unfortunately in science, what you believe is irrelevant.

2020 donation made, exempt but worth every dime!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:05 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
Default

What Paul said - clamp some scrap behind the piece and match drill into or thru it, to give the countersink guide more stuff to pilot off of.
Also, are you using a high speed air drill? I've found low speed drills tend to wander more (in aluminum), although this could just be my poor technique.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:08 PM
Stockmanreef Stockmanreef is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Midland, mi
Posts: 962
Default

I did something similar to Paul's suggestion for counter sinking all the holes in the spar flange. I used a 1/8" thick 1" wide 36" long piece of aluminum. I clamped it to the flange and then match drilled it along the entire 36" length. I match drilled part way through, then finished on drill press. I then clecoed the support metal to the flange and then counter sunk. This solved my wandering bit when counter sinking. No more enlarged holes.

I can post a picture of what I did if this description does not make sense.
__________________
Ken Stockman
Midland, MI
EAA Chapter 1093 member

FaceBook Page: Ken's RV-14
RV-14a (serial number 140073)
N73XP

Plane at hangar and the wings ON.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:29 PM
Bob Kuykendall's Avatar
Bob Kuykendall Bob Kuykendall is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Douglas Flat, CA
Posts: 589
Default

One other thing, make sure you're working with the right size rivets. If you're drilling and countersinking for #4 rivets where you should be using #3, you can pretty quickly knife-edge the hole. For a #4 rivet, I think that you can almost-but-not-quite countersink 0.040", and the thinnest stock you can countersink properly is 0.050".

Bob K.
__________________
Bob Kuykendall
HP-24 kit sailplane
EAA Technical Counselor
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-31-2013, 06:55 PM
HeliCooper HeliCooper is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 255
Default

I triple checked I was using the #40 CS. I think tolerance is just too close. Going one turn at a time I used just a deburring tool and even with the head still just proud of the surface the hole was starting to enlarge. I had to do this because two of the holes were too close to the flange to use the microstop. I am going to dimple it. Thanks for the suggestions on CS in the future though. I will definitely remember them.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:41 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.