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10-02-2013, 09:12 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Welcome to VAF!
Brandon, welcome to VAF 
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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10-02-2013, 12:37 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 160
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Fit a Lithium nanophosphate battery.
On my Pitts this saved 21lb over the "plans" battery or 12lb over an oydesy / redtop one
620 cranking amps = 3lb in weight (!)
It's worked fine for 16 months / 100+ starts now on my 0-360
The cost is about $450 though - this being said, I've yet to find anything better in terms of cost per lb weight saved (apart from Salad perhaps  )
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10-02-2013, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Donie,Texas
Posts: 199
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Acheaviable with close attention to detail
Quote:
Originally Posted by invertedflyby
Hi,
I am thinking of building an RV6 and am wanting to keep it as light and simple as possible. 180hp 3blade performancepropeller wood prop. I don't even want a carb heat so I was thinking IO, but I've heard you can get away with no carb heat on a carb'd Lycoming, is that true? Would it be possible to get one to come in at 973lbs?
What would the recipe be to do that? Tip up, no vacuum pump, etc?
Thanks.
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My -6 came in at 1000lbs, o360, 3-blade Performance Propeller, Day-Night VFR. Now this was without paint and the plane is now painted and will be reweighed soon.
With close attention to details and stick to Simple Day VFR I feel your goal is achievable. With new less expensive glass panels now, battery technology and lighter glass components(cowl, wing tips, wheel pants) you should get very close.
__________________
Frank
RV6-N164FJ sold sadly
Legal Eagle w/Verner 3VW
Rans S7s
RV4- in progress
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10-02-2013, 09:36 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 6
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Thanks for the welcome.
I appreciate all the input. I am not overly concerned about it being extremely light. I'm more interested in simple. I've learned that simple is better. I want something I don't have to think or worry about I can just go fly. Simple is cheaper, simple is less stuff to break, simple gives me a better chance of finishing one. I have a lot of other complex things in my life and want a dirt simple high performing airplane. I've heard a lot of people say they fly better when they're light and that's what I'm interested in. Plus I'm on a tight budget so can't really afford to put a lot of stuff in it.
I wanted to go FI or no carb heat for the single reason of one less control in the cockpit. But after this thread will definitely be going FI or having carb heat. How much more complicated is FI over a carb?
I'm okay with a tip up, no paint except the fiberglass, and a wood prop, a skyview, etc. That would be pretty cool. I do want night VFR though. I was thinking of converting the right half of the instrument panel into a giant glove box / storage area also.
I know 973lbs is strange. In this case it would be bragging rights. I have a Cessna 140A with 90hp that weighs 973lbs and got to thinking it would be cool to be able to say 'this one weighs exactly the same and has twice the hp'.
I just didn't know if that was doable, I have not researched weights before, I just remember seeing someone say that they should get a ride in a 1050lb one and it was a different plane. It sounds like 973lb would be difficult to get to, but if so that's fine.
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10-02-2013, 09:58 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lee's Summit, MO
Posts: 747
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Simple
I am on a similar path. My goal is inexpensive and relatively simple for many of the same reasons you state. I have also learned over many years of ownership that eventually everything on the airplane needs maintenance. I plan on using a Carbed O-360 with a fixed pitch prop. I have purchased the kit new but everything else used.
I have a Cessna 120 that weighs 915 pounds empty. As you probably know the 120 was the economy version of the 120/140. Mine left the factory without any interior or interior paint. Initially, the lack of interior gave me pause, then I realized it is perfect for me. Light weight, easy to clean, nothing to burn and never needs touched up. A stark contrast to the choice most people would make today when purchasing a new airplane.
__________________
Robert Williams
Lee's Summit, MO
RV-8 - Empennage & Wings Done
Working on Fuse
O-360-A1A
1946 Cessna 120
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10-02-2013, 10:09 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Austin
Posts: 130
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I could reduce the weight of my build by 25 pounds if I could just stop eating so much Blue Bell Ice cream 
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10-04-2013, 10:03 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 6
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I'm sure salads are better than ice cream for the gross weight of the planes!
DaAV8R, I'm bet it would be more difficult to build a 915lb 8 than a 973lb 6! That's an excellent weight for a 120/140. My dad had a 120, I was looking for a lightweight 120 when I bought the 140A. I only found junky ones in my price range over 6 months and the 140A popped up for just a few dollars more so I went over budget. I've thought about stripping the paint and removing the interior because it doesn't look good anyway.
Thanks for the advice everyone. I bought a completed 6A wings and tail a few months ago and would like to build the rest of the plane someday. If you run onto a cheap fuselage let me know.
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10-04-2013, 02:27 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TX32
Posts: 1,891
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Lighter they are...
Quote:
Originally Posted by invertedflyby
Hi,
I am thinking of building an RV6 and am wanting to keep it as light and simple as possible. 180hp 3blade performancepropeller wood prop. I don't even want a carb heat so I was thinking IO, but I've heard you can get away with no carb heat on a carb'd Lycoming, is that true? Would it be possible to get one to come in at 973lbs?
What would the recipe be to do that? Tip up, no vacuum pump, etc?
Thanks.
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Hi Brandon,
This is my 27th year in the RV world having built a 925lb RV4, 1190lb HR2 and my current 975lb RVX (RV6 Hybrid) I have been blessed with 3000+ RV flying hours and several lessons learned. From my first 2 airplanes and having inspected and flown 200 or so other RV's my conclusion? The lighter they are, the better and more fun they are to fly, trust me!
How do I keep them light? First, no frills keeps them simple, light and affordable. I don't care what they say about gross weight and empty weight performance. I've flown every model of the RV and the F16 and guess what, the lighter A model F16's fly better than any of the more powerful, heavier new models. Same holds true for any airplane, even RV's.
Techniques: 0-320 vs 0-360, I like the 0-320 as it's slightly lighter and can be rebuilt with 9,0:1 compression, has a shorter stroke and is a bit smoother. My RVX has an 0-360J (previous 0-320) the lightest 0-360 made.
Constant speed vs FP: Having owned both the FP for lower HP RV's is perfect. Simple, light and low cost. In fact it's 67 lbs lighter and around $5K cheaper depending on model. I like Craig Catto's composite props.
Starter/Alt: A true light nut would fore-go both items and hand prop but I used the lightest Sky-Tech available and a B&C SD8 mounted on the Vacuum pump pad. The Skydynamix Magnesium flywheel also saves 6lbs: http://www.skydynamics.com/sdflywheel.htm
Panel: KISS principle: My personal opinion is Autopilots are for airliners, Sport planes are for fun. Therefore, I didn't have one in any of my airplanes and never missed it. (I've flown alot of autopilots BTW) Instruments? I used a MGL Enigma and TruTrak ADI on the RVX with all LED lighting. 5.1A draw total.
Paint: One coat exterior with Vinyl trim, interior primer, no panels, trim or added weight. I do use Cool Max firewall protection.
RVX weight? 975 empty. Cost with used engine and Internet purchased avionics? Under $30K (2005 dollars)
How does it fly?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um3MZwrqPhQ
V/R
Smokey
Questions?
Last edited by smokyray : 10-04-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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10-04-2013, 02:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Being a fanatic about anything in life is often viewed as a negative trait. The one exception to this is weight and airplanes, and for good reason - lighter is ALWAYS better. I stripped 40 pounds of sound deadener, accessory lighting and unused avionics out of my Hiperbipe as soon as I bought it and it really made a difference in the way it performed. I also offload fuel and fly only what I need for the same reason. Flying with full tanks makes an airplane a PIG!
There are a few good tips on staying light listed in this thread/site, but one thing to consider is limiting the use of flexible hose to the absolute minumum. I replaced much of the flex hose on the RV-8 with hard line and found a net savings of more than 6 pounds! I bring this up because many builders here default to flex hose like it was crack cocane. Hose is HEAVY and adds up fast.
Don't cut any structural corners, but stay fanatical! There is plenty of low hanging fruit to help you keep the weight down.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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10-04-2013, 06:51 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: KSLC
Posts: 4,021
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I didn't build a light weight to putter around the airport. I didn't try for the KISS principal, because I'd probably soon get bored. I built mine for comfortable cross country. I installed a constant speed prop, because it really does perform much better at high altitude airports. I installed auto-pilots because I could care less about maintaining +/-10' altitude, by hand, for hundreds of miles at a time. I painted, because I'm not into ugly unpainted RVs, and certainly had no intention of keeping up with the polishing method.
It's all what we want isn't it? It's a lot of money and time, for a putting around the airport sport plane.
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