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POSTING RULES

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10-01-2013, 10:10 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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... It never ceases to amaze how a few people are poised to jump to conclusions as to what someone else says without reading what was said. I did not say anything other than I would like to know what the cause was and am willing to offer any and all help possible (at my expense). When I began to make the stainless doubler for the vertical it was to make me more comfortable after reading a thread on the potential problem. I then received many requests for this item so we offered them. We subsequently became aware of others that had shown signs of stress and cracks. It is very likely this part had nothing to do with the events of late. But I for one would like to know if this attach point was involved. If something else is involved then lets fix that! When the thread appeared about this area possibly being a potential problem we attempted to address it with a fix. I saw nothing offered from elsewhere, other than criticism. I am not trying to use scare tactics to sell anything. Our products speak for themselves and I use every one of them myself. If one feels threatened by questions, seeking answers to possible safety issues seems all the more important to pose them. In defense of the part in question I will say this, If my vertical stab decides to leave for whatever reason it will still be attached to the horizontal via the stainless bracket we created. I didn't start this thread to sell an existing product, but rather to help address any issue that we are made aware of with a tool or ? that may promote safety for all of us.... 
__________________
Allan Nimmo
AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & ServicesInfo@AntiSplatAero.com Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540 
(909) 824-1020
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10-01-2013, 10:24 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Big Sandy, WY
Posts: 2,567
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"We subsequently became aware of others that Has shown signs of stress and cracks."
Tell us about those.
__________________
Actual repeat offender.
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10-01-2013, 10:55 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Redlands, Ca.
Posts: 1,458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerhed
"We subsequently became aware of others that Has shown signs of stress and cracks."
Tell us about those.
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... We received some e-mails from owners stating this condition was found when they inspected their mount. They were pretty much a carbon copy of the original posted cracked brackets. Thanks, Allan
__________________
Allan Nimmo
AntiSplatAero.com
Innovative Aircraft Safety
Products, Tools & ServicesInfo@AntiSplatAero.com Southern California (KREI)
RV-9A / Edge-540 
(909) 824-1020
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10-01-2013, 11:20 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 976
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I was among those who posted expressing caution / concern about Allan's "reinforcement" Mod on the VS attach. However, I read his post here as not (over) promoting that, but proposing a tool to ensure / make easier to check certain bolts / nuts / torques when access is limited on a completed RV.
Whether or not the nuts on the hinges have any relevance, posts here and my experience / that of a UK inspector, shows these are often loose. So if Allan produced a tool that enabled those lock nuts to be torque checked, whilst holding the rod eye straight, all whilst the Emp is assembled, subject to a peer review on this forum, I could not see this being anything than a great step forward.
As an aside, I know of one RV(-8), and have heard of one other, where the rear 4 AN3 bolts holding the HS on were loose enough to enlarge the holes in the vertical bars attaching the HS to the fuselage. Solution was to go up to AN4 bolts - just OK on ED. I would not advocate AN4 as a matter of course - best solution would be to ensure torqued correctly, and then checked to maintain as such.
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10-02-2013, 01:35 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Secluded Lake,Alaska (AK49)
Posts: 359
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Tail attach
From my perspective, I trust the parts are made from material that can handle the loads. The one thing I can do as a builder to ensure that the stresses are carried from one piece to the other is pay attention to the joint. Specifically, bolt hole preparation and bolt type. After watching what goes on back in the tail on every airplane I have watched produce full power during ground ops checks, I have decided to ream the holes for AN173 bolts. These are close tolerance bolts that are made from the same material as the AN bolts called out for. Certainly the wings are loaded higher, however the tail is cycled at an incredible rate compared to the wings. Clamping pressure/torque is important, however nothing will help alleviate hole wear than an initial close tolerance fit.
AC43.13 2B guidance
7-39. BOLT FIT. Bolt holes, particularly
those of primary connecting elements, have
close tolerances. Generally, it is permissible to
use the first-lettered drill size larger than the
nominal bolt diameter, except when the AN
hexagon bolts are used in light-drive fit
(reamed) applications and where NAS closetolerance
bolts or AN clevis bolts are used. A
light-drive fit can be defined as an interference
of 0.0006 inch for a 5/8 inch bolt. Bolt holes
should be flush to the surface, and free of debris
to provide full bearing surface for the bolt
head and nut. In the event of over-sized or
elongated holes in structural members, reaming
or drilling the hole to accept the next larger
bolt size may be permissible. Care should be
taken to ensure items, such as edge distance,
clearance, and structural integrity are maintained.
Consult the manufacturer?s structural
repair manual, the manufacturer?s engineering
department, or the FAA before drilling or
reaming any bolt hole in a critical structural
member.
This tells me I can fudge a 1/4" hole to a letter "F" if it is not a "Primary connecting element" that "have close tolerance" I intend to ream these holes in assembly.
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10-02-2013, 06:40 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri
Posts: 4,514
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Perhaps thread title "Part to Inspect Tail Feathers" would have been more appropriate.
__________________
RV-12 Build Helper
RV-7A...Sold #70374
The RV-8...Sold #83261
I'm in, dues paid 2019 This place is worth it!
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10-02-2013, 07:03 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Posts: 325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PerfTech
... I will say this, If my vertical stab decides to leave for whatever reason it will still be attached to the horizontal via the stainless bracket we created.
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I noticed that in the recent accident photos that the canopy was found detached from the airplane. In the event that it is decidied that ejecting the canopy may be prudent ive had concerns about it impacting the tail. It seems to me that it would probably hit the vert stab if anything. In your opinion would the plate help keep the damage minimal or would it cause the horizontal stab to be affected where it otherwise would have been?
__________________
Jesse
'89 RV-4, N2626C - purchased flying
Converted to Fastback - Sliding Canopy - Tall Gear
Dynon Skyview w/ acc. & VP-x Sport
Catto 3-Blade (gen. 1)
Based: KPGD
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10-02-2013, 07:34 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 705
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Allan. Good on you
All I can say Allan is keep up the great work
and innovation. I saw the original post of the verticle stab
attach bracket that was cracked and there was another to follow.
Your concern was shared with mine and many others. Your potential
solution to this problem as well as many other known problems are innovative
and quite viable. Thank you for your innovations and insight.
I'm no engineer but I would rather have these products on my plane
than not. Man this is NOT scare tactics to sell products!!
How about a general concern for safety!!
There is a difference between speculation and plain common
sense precaution. By the way, if you develope a special wrench to tighten
the rod end nuts, im sure you well sell many, ironically maybe even to the
negative folk. Thanks again Allan for your great work.
__________________
Al Girard, Newport, RI
N339AG
RV-9
Last edited by agirard7a : 10-02-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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10-02-2013, 07:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa (BKV)
Posts: 926
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
Pole vaulted may be a more appropriate statement.
Sorry for probably crossing the line (and this will probably get deleted by a moderator) but advertiser or not, this sounds far to much like scare tactic marketing to me.
The accident in Canada is well investigated and documented. The cause had nothing to do with the reinforcement part being promoted here.
The most recent accident is in early stages of an investigation. Making an assumption that this part would/might have prevented it is totally out of line.
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It's a sales thing. It works in here and has been going on for quite a while.
One born every minute.
__________________
RV-8 Flying
1,235th flying RV8
SARL Race#95
SnF Homebuilt Judge
2015 Sun n Fun Kit Built Reserve Grand Champion
2015 Oshkosh Kit Built Champion
2015 Jeffco Kit Built Grand Champion
2014 Oshkosh Outstanding Workmanship Award
Broken Warrior of the Jarhead Clan
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10-02-2013, 08:14 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Newport, RI
Posts: 705
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Wow!
Sales thing? Wow. How about creative thinking, innovation,
A genuine concern for safety, most importantly implementing
ideas. The mindset that made us a great nation!
Do you think many of this countries innovators profited
from their ideas. Hope so!
__________________
Al Girard, Newport, RI
N339AG
RV-9
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