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  #1  
Old 09-26-2013, 11:44 AM
Daniel S. Daniel S. is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lawrenceville, Georgia
Posts: 315
Default Empennage Re-do's

Hey all-
Just simply out of curiosity, I'm wondering how many people at the end of their build go back and build a second empenage. I hear it's fairly common place, but just how common of an event is it? I spent about 160 hours on the first one. I bet building the second would take <100 hrs & have better workmanship.
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DANIEL S.
RV7-A (528KS)
-Empannage Done.
-Electrical System Planning / Schematic Done.
-Wing Kit Delivered 09/13/12.
-Wings 95% Done Flaps & Electrical to go.
-Have got to order the fuse soon!!!!.

[/font]http://www.mykitlog.com/dschoning/
"This is a first-time event, and we're looking forward to it"... Chuck Yeager
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  #2  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:27 PM
YellowJacket RV9 YellowJacket RV9 is offline
 
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Location: Clearwater, FL KCLW
Posts: 1,281
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I am rebuilding right elevator and horizontal stabilizer. Elevator had a skin ding i didn't like, and the HS was essentially practice for me. Didn't like how a lot of the rivets turned out...
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RV-9A - Done(ish) 4/5/16! Flying 4/7/16
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  #3  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:51 PM
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blahphish blahphish is offline
 
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Location: Marietta, GA (KCZL)
Posts: 308
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Daniel I know you're a perfectionist - just fly the thing if there are no safety concerns! For those of you building a show plane, disregard my remark
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  #4  
Old 09-26-2013, 12:59 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Why does Van's have you start on the HS? Those first rivets you pound, down in the nose are some of the most difficult rivets in the entire kit.

When asked, I recommend new builders start with the VS because it has much better access to all the rivets, thus it is easier to build.

BTW, I trashed my first two HS skins and replaced them both, some ribs, etc. It was ugly and not airworthy! The good thing was it gave me some aluminum to use for some minor mods I made later in the build.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
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  #5  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:03 PM
Daniel S. Daniel S. is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lawrenceville, Georgia
Posts: 315
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Thanks Brian.
I'm not going to redo my whole tail... Well, maybe just 2 parts (VS & Left elevator w/ trim tab). No real safety concern, they are just not as well done as I would like ... I'm about done with the metal work on the "wing" section & will have some down time. I was honestly just curious how many people re-do it. I just heard another local guy was going to do a re-do.
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DANIEL S.
RV7-A (528KS)
-Empannage Done.
-Electrical System Planning / Schematic Done.
-Wing Kit Delivered 09/13/12.
-Wings 95% Done Flaps & Electrical to go.
-Have got to order the fuse soon!!!!.

[/font]http://www.mykitlog.com/dschoning/
"This is a first-time event, and we're looking forward to it"... Chuck Yeager
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  #6  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:21 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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If/when I were to build another RV, I would buy a 2X rivet gun.

Having used a friend's 2X, I found they are perfect for setting skin to rib rivets. You will still need a 3X gun for those rivets that have to be set in more structure, such as the longerons, or where three or four parts must be riveted together.

The 2X is light enough that it doesn't dent the skin, if the bucking bar or gun slips off but still heavy enough to set the rivet quickly.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #7  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:36 PM
JDBoston JDBoston is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Boston Area
Posts: 284
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I am at the beginning of my RV-9 tail now, and am ready to prime the HS parts, however have now shifted to the VS per Bill's suggestion.

Having had some bad experiences so far on the practice kit with the 3x gun I think I will get a 2x as well unless I hear feedback from others saying it is too little
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RV-14A
Status: Wings complete(ish), Working on: Empennage. Fuselage kit on order
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2013, 01:43 PM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,967
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I had smileys in my vertical stabilizer spar, so I trashed that particular assembly and started fresh with new parts from Vans. Boy am I glad I did. It took very little time to get back to where I had been in the plans and the work was perfect.

I wouldn't consider redoing an entire emp kit, but then again, my work came out good after my "learning" on the VS the first time. Plus I took several organized classes before starting my project, so I wasn't totally green. However, I'm not sure I'm happy with one of my elevator trim tabs, so that may get redone later...

All in all, IMHO the things that affect quality of workmanship the most are experience (read: prior practice) and tools/shop (use the right tools for the job whenever possible). Things like pneumatic squeezers and specialized handtools are not just a luxury; they really help to turn out good product.
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  #9  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:00 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDBoston View Post
I am at the beginning of my RV-9 tail now, and am ready to prime the HS parts, however have now shifted to the VS per Bill's suggestion.

Having had some bad experiences so far on the practice kit with the 3x gun I think I will get a 2x as well unless I hear feedback from others saying it is too little
Don't give up, if you ding some parts. Believe me, I trashed a LOT parts during my build and just ordered replacements. Here is a picture of just some of my trashed parts.

Make sure you experiment with different air pressures. Less pressure than you might think typically works best. Here is a list of recommended pressures for 3X guns. These are only a starting point. YMMV!
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #10  
Old 09-26-2013, 02:13 PM
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airguy airguy is online now
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,147
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The tail kit is by far the cheapest subkit, and it serves as an "advanced practice" kit, if you will. If you learn decent or good riveting skills before starting the tail then your tail is likely to be fine - but if you completely screw the pooch, you have the option to chunk it and start over for less than 2 grand - there are not many opportunities in aviation for that kind of do-over.

I had to re-do the HS spar and skins on mine, not because I messed up the metalwork, but because I mis-read the plan drawings and FUBAR'd the spar. It was a relatively inexpensive lesson to learn at the beginning of the project.
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N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.

Last edited by airguy : 09-26-2013 at 02:16 PM.
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