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09-22-2013, 01:11 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee
Can we expect Vans to be involved in this process?
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Personal opinion ONLY here, but I suspect they are already looking into this at a design level---------no idea if they are going to be involved in the "official" NTSB investigation------or if they will ever make public their involvement unless there is an item of safety to flight that comes up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee
My memory is sketchy but wasn't there another RV crash in the last year or so that Van's was involved in the investigation? If so, were the results ever revealed?
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You are correct, as I recall it was CALLED an RV6, but not a factory production kit--------something done by a person who did a lot of prototype work for Vans IIRC.
No idea if the final results were published.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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09-22-2013, 01:20 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S
You are correct, as I recall it was CALLED an RV6, but not a factory production kit--------something done by a person who did a lot of prototype work for Vans IIRC.
No idea if the final results were published.
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Mike, that may be it. I lost my hard drive last December so my info on that may have been lost. Someone found enough info that I decided that I need not worry about my RV-6A.
As for the 7A, the mentioned thread in the Safety forum does offer one thing to check just to be cautious, regardless of whether it was a factor or not.
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09-22-2013, 01:43 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee
As for the 7A, the mentioned thread in the Safety forum does offer one thing to check just to be cautious, regardless of whether it was a factor or not.
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Not just the 7a, but considering that the control surface mounting method is pretty common among the various models it is probably a good idea for everyone to check this area.
I am going to, that is for sure.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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09-22-2013, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Lee
Can we expect Vans to be involved in this process? My memory is sketchy but wasn't there another RV crash in the last year or so that Van's was involved in the investigation? If so, were the results ever revealed?
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It's fairly SOP in NTSB probes that the company is involved .
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09-22-2013, 03:55 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,166
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The AAIB (and I presume NTSB) are in no rush to produce a "Final Report", but do have a remit to publish any urgent safety advice / findings. Do readers here have the confidence in the NTSB process that if there was a design issue, or potential common build / maintenance error, this would be investigated and published in a timely manner?[/quote]
Andy, I am a huge believer in learning from the mistakes or problems others experience. I believe it has kept me alive more then once. I have a background in aviation safety and try to come to some understanding on most accidents involving any aircraft type I might be flying.
I have read many NTSB reports relating to RV's. For the most part I have little confidence in the NTSB to properly investigate and come to a conclusion on a RV accident. This is not a rebuke of NTSB investigators. They are very good and highly qualified. The problems is that they are slammed with investigations and simply have way to large a case load. As a result most RV investigations end up being a minimal effort to clear that accident. In most cases there is very little actual investigation and the final report relies on phone conversations with witnesses ect... More often then not they never even visit the accident site. They simply have higher priority accidents on their plate.
This accident raises questions that I am sure Vans will want answers to so perhaps it will get a bit more visibility. Still it would not surprise me if the NTSB gets the radar plots, looks at photo's of the damage and makes a few phone calls and calls it complete and posts a probable cause that may or may not be correct.
I have a lot of questions in my mind already focused on the damage the aircraft sustained not long ago. I wonder if when the rudder hit the elevator there could have been some unseen elevator damage. There was none mentioned in the thread on the subject. Could this have led to flutter or failure on a elevator component? Others on here have vastly more experience then I have in the construction aspects of the aircraft and can probably provide some great information. I hope the NTSB will at least look into the damage and repairs even though it appeared to me minor at first glance. It may be the incident has no bearing on the accident but the timing suggests it should be looked at. Hopefully Vans will push the NTSB and have some of their own people involved. Perhaps the wreckage will yield a smoking gun and give RV7/8 owners a understanding of what may have happened and how to avoid it in the future. I certainly hope that will turn out to be the case so something useful can come out of this tragedy.
George
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09-22-2013, 04:06 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DuBois,Il
Posts: 144
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Proceedure for tail checking
Due to this recent incident, I have also decided to give my tail section another look. Even though I did build my 7A, and yes, I am "licensed" to inspect and repair it, could someone with "A & P" type experience post a short procedure on exactly what to look for and the best way to go about it?...Yes, I know that seems simplistic..look for cracks, loose bolts, etc...I am hoping someone can take me to a higher level, i.e., on this design, where is a small crack most likely to manifest itself first? Even the part numbers might be helpful. If someone has had experience with metal fatigue of any kind on the tail, how did it appear to start? Was it in an easily seen area..or was it "hidden"? (by the way, I'm not trying to imply that metal fatigue had anything to do with Mr. Kelly's incident).
If I am going to re-inspect it, I would like the best information available on how to go about it.
As usual, with most of my silly questions, this didn't come out exactly right..I'm hoping all of you can get the flavor of this question.
Again, even though I built it, I would gladly accept any suggestions from a more qualified repairman or more experienced builder...
Thanks in Advance.
__________________
Brian K. Morrow
DuBois,Il
N433BC RV-7A Flying
RV-12is EMP done, FUSE in progress!..Official Repeat Offender
"Maintain thy airspeed...Lest the earth arise and smite thee..."
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09-22-2013, 07:34 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ruston, Louisiana
Posts: 879
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I need help figuring out what is going here.
The photo below is the outboard section of the elevator.
The counterweight does not look like mine at all. My counterweights are way up front.
Was there an earlier version of the elevator?
Mark
__________________
Mark Burns
Ruston, Louisiana
RV-7A N781CM 1,650+ hrs
FFI FL-24
A&P
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09-22-2013, 07:46 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 580
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Inspected 3 planes today
I inspected a 4, a 6, an 8, and a 9 and found one jam nut loose and a third of the other jam nuts on the horz. stab and rudder needed to be tightened a bit. No cracks.
Steve "The Builders Coach"
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09-22-2013, 07:50 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,275
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Are you folks using an offset wrench to check the jamb nuts?
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09-22-2013, 08:05 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 5,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Burns
I need help figuring out what is going here.
The photo below is the outboard section of the elevator.
The counterweight does not look like mine at all. My counterweights are way up front.
Was there an earlier version of the elevator?
Mark
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Yes that is the early version of the counter weight location, I have the same style on my 7.
__________________
Walt Aronow, DFW, TX (52F)
EXP Aircraft Services LLC
Specializing in RV Condition Inspections, Maintenance, Avionics Upgrades
Dynamic Prop Balancing, Pitot-Static Altmeter/Transponder Certification
FAA Certified Repair Station, AP/IA/FCC GROL, EAA Technical Counselor
Authorized Garmin G3X Dealer/Installer
RV7A built 2004, 1700+ hrs, New Titan IO-370, Bendix Mags
Website: ExpAircraft.com, Email: walt@expaircraft.com, Cell: 972-746-5154
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