VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > Safety
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-13-2013, 09:38 AM
semperfubar semperfubar is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chile
Posts: 7
Default Phase 1 testing - dual pilot question

We are close to finishing up an RV-8, Fernando (airbuspilot), who already owns a RV-8 will be doing the maiden flight and approximately the next 5 hours of test flying. I have rather enjoyed helping Fernando and the owner in finishing up the plane over the last few months and it has really opened my eyes to all the possibilities. I had never even considered building a plane before!!!

Getting to the point, the owner would like me (1000hrs and about 100+ taildragger) to do the rest of the phase one testing ( finishing at total of 40hrs). I am familiar with the "Required crew" requirement, however I am thinking on turning down flying the RV-8 for the owner (also friend) since he seems to want to just pop in the back seat at hour 5 and fly along with me.

As much as the plane has been beautifully built and with lots of dedication and care, and I would not anticipate any sort of problems with the design, this situation makes me uncomfortable. I would prefer the owner to come along maybe for later flights (even after hour 10-15) and/or CG related flights.

My question is, am I exaggerating the risk with the Vans line of aircraft? I realise that it probably is the worlds most popular kitplane, but I still think a healthy attitude and some level of care during this test phase is necessary. Whatcha think?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-13-2013, 09:45 AM
Low Pass's Avatar
Low Pass Low Pass is offline
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,012
Default

I think you answered the question yourself saying you were uncomfortable.

And you better have your Nomex on and secured with your stating you foresee a second required crew member during the test period. Personally, I see this as your call as the regs say PIC determines required crew. Just be prepared for the onslaught.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:05 AM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
Default

There is no justifiable reason for a second person to be aboard a flying RV type aircraft during phase I.

Phase I is for testing of the aircraft period.

I have heard of situations where a FSDO inspector said it was OK, however, a FSDO inspector does not have the authority to override the regs.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>

Last edited by Mel : 09-13-2013 at 10:19 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:08 AM
tc1234c's Avatar
tc1234c tc1234c is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Port Orange, FL
Posts: 1,020
Default

It is a good idea to review with the builder section 15-10 of the construction manual, "Carrying Passengers During Phase I Testing".
__________________
Ted Chang, VAF #681
RV-9A #91048, flying since 8/2006. 2,050 hrs.

2018 Due paid
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:50 AM
dmaib's Avatar
dmaib dmaib is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: New Smyrna Beach, FL
Posts: 1,339
Default

Guys, perhaps the regs regarding flight test in Chile are different than here in the US.
__________________
David Maib
RV-10 N380DM
New Smyrna Beach, FL
VAF Paid 1/21/2020

"In '69 I was 21, and I called the road my own"
Jackson Browne





Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-13-2013, 10:57 AM
Mel's Avatar
Mel Mel is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaib View Post
Guys, perhaps the regs regarding flight test in Chile are different than here in the US.
Sorry, there was nothing in the original post saying that it was in Chili.
I don't regularly check the location of the poster unless I see a reason.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2013, 11:14 AM
semperfubar semperfubar is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Chile
Posts: 7
Default

Ya, it's in Chile, but generally the DGAC (chilean FAA) for the most part does a CTRL-C, CTRL-V of the US regs...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2013, 11:28 AM
Andy Hill's Avatar
Andy Hill Andy Hill is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 976
Default

In the UK, an "observer" is permitted even encouraged for the Test Period apart from the 1st flight. However, passengers are not permitted, nor may instruction be given. The (slight) extra risk is required to be understood / explained.

I personally find it useful to have along the builder/owner, especially given the complex EFIS systems, and also to point out in a realistic scenario where some of their "bright ideas" might not quite be so In addition, the details of some of the Test Schedules require extensive note taking, better done 2 up.

That said, we have the build RVs pretty much to the Vans plans, and the Test Period as a result is just minimum 5hrs / 15 landings inc the applicable Test Schedule(s).
__________________
Andy & Ellie Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV-3B G-HILI very slow build
RV8tors
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-13-2013, 02:56 PM
Kevin Horton's Avatar
Kevin Horton Kevin Horton is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,357
Default

I won't attempt to address the question as to whether passengers are allowed during the flight test phase in Chile or not, as I'm not familiar with the Chilean regulations.

If I was the test pilot, I would not want anyone else in the aircraft until the aircraft had enough hours on it that I was reasonably comfortable that the engine, fuel system, etc were working properly. I would also want to have flown the aircraft long enough myself to have become comfortable with it before I added the potential distraction of a passenger.

Keep in mind that with an RV-8, there is a significant CG change when you have a passenger in back, and this affects the handling. Check out the aft CG handling using ballast before you fly with a passenger. It is recommended to move the CG aft in steps over several flights, rather than doing the whole thing in one big step on one flight.

The owner must understand that the guy in front is Pilot in Command (PIC), that that the flight will be solo unless the PIC is 100% ready to fly with a passenger. If the owner will attempt to pressure the PIC to do what he wants, then I would not fly with the owner in back.
__________________
Kevin Horton
RV-8
Moses Lake, WA, USA
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-13-2013, 03:52 PM
rvbuilder2002's Avatar
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Horton View Post
Keep in mind that with an RV-8, there is a significant CG change when you have a passenger in back, and this affects the handling. Check out the aft CG handling using ballast before you fly with a passenger. It is recommended to move the CG aft in steps over several flights, rather than doing the whole thing in one big step on one flight.
My thoughts exactly... regardless what the rules are in Chile.

And no I don't think the O.P is being overly cautious at all.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:55 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.