VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Model Specific > RV-10
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:26 AM
ppilotmike's Avatar
ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,967
Default AP Recommendations for 10

I am at the point now where I need to install my AP bracket/servos in the wing for roll control. I know there have been changes recently with EFIS manufacturers creating their own AP servo setups (i.e. Dynon, Garmin).

Can I get some recommendations from the group about pros/cons with going with Trutrack vs. the EFIS company's AP?

It seems that most 10s have been built with Trutracks (or at least they all seem to look like Truetracks)
__________________
Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301 www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current
RV-10 Working on the "Dreaded Doors"
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index....ig&project=803
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCyX2FXrlw
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:31 AM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default

I suggest you talk to Stein about this, he is on top of the current information heap, and he has some good thoughts on the matter.

He and I had the same basic conversation last week.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:42 AM
DFlyer DFlyer is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 131
Default

Mike,

We (Dynon) created a custom pitch servo for the RV-10 with the help of RV-10 owners. The RV-10 roll servo is common to the 7/8/10. Contact us if you would like to learn more.

-Robert
Dynon Avionics
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:41 AM
rleffler's Avatar
rleffler rleffler is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Delaware, OH (KDLZ)
Posts: 4,196
Default

There is only one major differentiator that I'm aware and not everyone agrees, that it is critical. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Many of the poplular EFIS manufacturers have developed an integrated autopilot.

Trutrak (and Trio) can integrate with many of these same EFIS vendors' products. Trutrak has specific integrations for AFS and Garmin.

The question to ask each vendor is: "Your flying in IMC. The EFIS dies. What happens to the autopilot?"

With the Trutrak, you can still manually control the AP head, and if the GPS is directly wired, it will follow the course. The benefit of the AP being independent and keeping the wings level, is that it buys you think time. In IMC, this is priceless.

My concern would be that if the EFIS should die with an integrated AP, there would be no mechanism in place to control the servos.

Granted, this is a very low probability of becoming a real risk and it's only pertinent in IMC.

There are multiple reasons you see more Trutraks in RV-10s.
  1. They were the first to have a product for the RV-10
  2. AFS, GRT, Garmin, Chelton, and Trutrak all recommended Trutrak APs (at least initially)
  3. There was no competition from the integrated offerings until this past year.
  4. Many RV-10 builders spend more on their panels.
  5. Many builder's copy what's know to work well from previous builders.
__________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - RV10 Flying
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-12-2013, 11:52 AM
ppilotmike's Avatar
ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,967
Default

Bob,

Thanks. I saw you went with a TT setup, from looking at your builder's log. I definitely want functionality of the AP if the EFIS dies. My understanding is that Garmin's AP still works in this manner (i.e. G3X is down), but I'll investigate further.

Mike,

I will talk to Stein of course. It's great having someone who knows a lot about all the various systems and can still be somewhat objective with advice.

Looks like my plan to wait until the very end to decide on avionics may be harder to execute than I thought. I'd like to close the wings, but I probably need my AP in first. I can install my pitot mast, but probably want to have access to install things like heat controllers, etc. Tough choices... And here I spent all that time in forums at OSH this year. I should have spent more time in the ABCD hangars!
__________________
Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301 www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current
RV-10 Working on the "Dreaded Doors"
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index....ig&project=803
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCyX2FXrlw
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-12-2013, 12:01 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilotmike View Post
I'd like to close the wings, but I probably need my AP in first.
No, the True Track aileron servo and mounting bracket are easy to install after the wing is closed. Ditto for the elevator.

Pretty sure other brands are also designed to be installed in a finished wing.

Have you run a wiring chase for the AP wires?? I would run a separate one just for the AP. Easier to access later and only ounces of weight and minimum $$.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-12-2013, 12:08 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppilotmike View Post
Can I get some recommendations from the group about pros/cons with going with Trutrack vs. the EFIS company's AP?
Disclaimer: everyone loves their own choices!

Don't overlook Trio. If the EFIS dies the Trio can couple into the 420W and fly an LPV approach. Coupled to the GRT HX, it can do heading and a full ILS. But imho a great feature - unique to Trio as far as I know - is that I use it for pitch trim when hand flying. It is speed sensitive, driving the trim slower as the airspeed increases. I personally like the design philosophy, with having the servos out of the loop when the autopilot is off.

As Bob said above, for vfr use you cannot beat the efis autopilots. But if you want the same level of redundancy, compare a stand alone autopilot to an EFIS one plus a second air data computer. I think you'll see either option is about the same cost.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-12-2013, 12:09 PM
ppilotmike's Avatar
ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,967
Default Conduit for AP

Mike,

I've got holes for the conduit runs, but haven't pulled the black stuff through yet. I'm thinking I can get by with (2) conduit runs. (Strobes, navs, landing lights, heated pitot) in one, and (Auto Pilot, COM/NAV antennas) in the other. Thoughts?
__________________
Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301 www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current
RV-10 Working on the "Dreaded Doors"
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index....ig&project=803
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCyX2FXrlw
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-12-2013, 12:16 PM
ppilotmike's Avatar
ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,967
Default AP Independence

Bob,

I agree. AP independence is very important to me as well. I was reading through the very long (like 25 pages or so) thread on Garmin's G3X announcements, regarding their AP cans & can'ts. I think it will act stand alone, but I'm not sure if it will fly GPS from a back-up EFIS product unless it's a garmin. As I said, I need to learn more. It would be great to know that I could install the AP later (after closing the wings). If that's the case, I'll bide my time. My build is moving slower than anticipated anyway.
__________________
Mike Rettig
EAA Chapter 301 www.eaa301.org
VAF Dues Current
RV-10 Working on the "Dreaded Doors"
http://www.mykitlog.com/users/index....ig&project=803
F-14 (Pedal Plane - Daughter's Project) "Flying"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKCyX2FXrlw
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-12-2013, 12:23 PM
Mike S's Avatar
Mike S Mike S is offline
Senior Curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
Don't overlook Trio.
I rode with a buddy some years back, and IIRC he had a Trio in his 9.

One feature that impressed me was that the AP could do a 180* reverse course with a single button push-----and it maintained level flight while doing so.

Seems like it was a good safety option if the weather "closed in" around you.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909

Rv-10, N210LM.

Flying as of 12/4/2010

Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011

Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.

"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
Reply With Quote
Reply



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:22 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.