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  #11  
Old 09-05-2013, 08:52 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf3543 View Post
Where do you purchase it? I saw a few places selling gallons at over $200 but no Qts. I'd like to try it but I don't need a gallon.
Well, how about:

http://www.neelyindustries.com/p-404...und-quart.aspx

Even at $200 a gallon the stuff is cheap compared to the consequences of ad hoc chemistry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketbob View Post
If its proven to work well by an experienced painter, why not. Talc is used widely in polyurethane paints, gypsum is just a slightly harder mineral. I'll wager to bet that $65 can of primer consists of a pretty high percentage of talc.
It absolutely does contain a high percentage of talc. Talc isn't the issue. (POSTSCRIPT - We're both wrong. Got time to chase down a MSDS. The bulk filler in 28C1 is silica flour, i.e. finely ground silica sand.)

I think I'll try toothpaste. Seriously. Contains some kind of inert bulk filler, and dries hard on my sink. Should sand well, and it will give the airplane a nice minty smell
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Last edited by DanH : 09-05-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:10 AM
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flyboy1963 flyboy1963 is offline
 
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Default tried and tested.....sorta

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
I think I'll try toothpaste. Seriously. Contains some kind of inert bulk filler, and dries hard on my sink. Should sand well, and it will give the airplane a nice minty smell
Dan, you must have gone to university, and had to fill those hundreds of tack and staple holes in your dorm walls before you moved out!

...and here I thought I invented that!!!
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  #13  
Old 09-05-2013, 09:17 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1963 View Post
Dan, you must have gone to university, and had to fill those hundreds of tack and staple holes in your dorm walls before you moved out!

...and here I thought I invented that!!!
Nah, we used the same trick moving out of government quarters at Ft. Sill and Ft. Carson back in the 70s and early 80s.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2013, 11:00 AM
gorbak gorbak is offline
 
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Loehle Wonder-Fil for me. I prefer to use a product designed for aircraft rather than a wall at home. Loehle Wonder-Fil did a nice job on the pin holes and yes, I had to spend considerable time applying and sanding to get it to an acceptable level. 613 hours to prep, primer and paint the airplane prior to assembly. All this done in pieces before final assembly. I may be slow but we got a decent paint job. I am not a professional painter and I really appreciate aviation painters as they are outstanding people.

Pat Garboden
Katy, TX
RV9A N942PT

First flight scheduled for 9/14/13 in Wichita, KS
Dues paid.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2013, 12:02 PM
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f1rocket f1rocket is offline
 
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Ah, the illusive magic "pin hole filler". What hasn't been tried? Seems like most everything has been sprayed, brushed, squeegeed, and squirted on our few fiberglass parts. I don't have any sympathy for you guys. I built one of Burt Rutan's "flying port-a-potties" as they are often referred to in this forum. Talk about honing your finishing skills. Once you built the entire airframe, you were maybe HALF done.

Best stuff I could find (and I've tried many ways to fill pin holes) is to thin out some high quality body filler (not BONDO) and squeegee on a skim coat. Dries fast, adheres well, and fills the pin holes if thinned down. Other than that, it's prime, fill the pin holes, sand, prime, fill........well, you get the idea.

I might have to try the drywall mud as I finish the -12.
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RV-12 - Completed 2014, Sold
427 Shelby Cobra - Completed 2012, Sold
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  #16  
Old 09-05-2013, 12:30 PM
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Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorbak View Post
Loehle Wonder-Fil for me. I prefer to use a product designed for aircraft rather than a wall at home.
Before we get too wrapped around the axle about fillers, paint, etc, we need to keep in mind that nearly all finishing products we use on our planes were designed for some application other than aviation. Just because a product has an airplane on the label doesn't mean it hasn't been repurposed from some other application. Most likely our epoxies come from the marine or automotive industries. That is definitely the case for those of us who used PPG automotive fillers and finishes on our RVs.
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  #17  
Old 09-05-2013, 01:22 PM
BonitaRV8 BonitaRV8 is offline
 
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Default The secert is out...

I learned this from a composites expert who has been building composite planes and race cars for over 30 years. He learned about it while building Formula One cars in England for Williams Renault and said "don't tell anyone, its a secert". We have used this on three Long EZ style of aircraft (100%) composite prior to painting. It has worked well and the paint jobs have really held up well. It makes the final finishing much less labor intensive and yields a good surface. As long as you only use it for covering the ?pin holes? and not as a filler for big craters that would leave a ?powder bomb? underneath you will be ok. I haven?t gotten to the painting stage on my 8 yet but it is what I was planning on using for the fiberglass parts.

Scott
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  #18  
Old 09-05-2013, 01:34 PM
bpattonsoa bpattonsoa is offline
 
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I must state that I am not trying to save money on my -10 (just ask ACS, Vans, Aerosport, PlanePower and Stein about my accounts), just time. I have finished a lot of fiberglass while building my 15 meter glider, my -6A and while being Crew Chief for Bad Intentions, a Reno SuperSport racer which had a bunch of fiberglass built by me. I also have painted three aircraft, the above listed. I have also spent way too much time in my life filling pinholes, spraying primer, filling pinholes, spraying primer, filling ..... etc seems like forever.

So this time I asked the local fiberglass expert who finishes other peoples glass (only) airplanes about his technique. He produces paint jobs that rival Oshkosh winners in an amazing short period of time. I don't know how many Lancair 4's he has built, but it is more than three.

It took one application of a very simple process to produce a primer coat ready for final paint. It ain't aircraft but it is totally effective.

It would be interesting to try an experiment to see how this works as a filler beyond pinholes and fabric weave. The area of concern is how well the epoxy primer (or thinned epoxy) penetrates the dry compound. Where it penetrates completely you have the same as you can buy in a can for $200/gallon. Someone mentioned the nightmare of a layer of soft dust under your paint and is why I filled with micro.

Here how to find out. Make some narrow wood strips that are tapered from, say, !/4" to zero about 12" long and put them about 1" apart on another piece of wood with some wax paper. Fill with dry wall compound and sand when it cures. Finish the resultant strips of drywall mud with epoxy primer, West System epoxy both thinned and unthinned, and any other thing (except toothpaste) that might penetrate and act as a binder. After they cure, remove the strips and find how much each of the materials will penetrate. If it will work on thick layers, it would make finishing a lot easier.
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Rans S-20 Raven 796S flying since 2019 (slowly)
RV-6A 596S flying since '99 (Sold)
HP-18 5596S flying since '89
RV-10 996S flying since 2014, quick build wing and slow build fues., - dual Skyviews with complete system, two radio and not much else. Interior completely finished with Zolatone. CF plenum. 1624 lbs, FLYING after a 21.5 month build.

Last edited by bpattonsoa : 09-05-2013 at 05:22 PM.
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  #19  
Old 09-05-2013, 03:30 PM
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rv9av8tr rv9av8tr is offline
 
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I have to say that my initial reaction is concern over eventual delamination due to lack of adequate adhesion by the soft filler substrate. Many years ago, delamination issues was reported with Featherfill over fiberglass. Featherfill is a two part hardening application, but it's also fairlly soft after cure. After other filling systems came out, use of Featherfill fell to the wayside.

To fill FG weave patterns takes a lot more filler than just filling pin holes.
No denying using sheetrock mud would be easy to apply & sand!!

I just have to say that I've known Bruce P for 20+ years through work and play. His tenacity & craftsmanship is AMAZING! I've not seen Bruce take "short cuts" that he hadn't proven out before hand. He's an engineer's engineer!
Go Bruce!
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  #20  
Old 09-24-2013, 07:24 AM
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f1rocket f1rocket is offline
 
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Saw this thread a few weeks back and said then that I would try it. Well this past weekend, I worked on the wheel pants and decided to give it a try.

On one wheelpant, I started using the traditional method of using spot putty. On the other, I used DAP Joint Compound. WOW, no comparison. I quickly stopped using the spot putty and went exclusively with the mud.

I learned a couple of things. One, rather than try to apply the mud with a scraper, I ended up using my hands and just smearing it on. I also figured out that priming the part first reduced the overall steps to a finished part by one step.

In any case, the mud went on easy, was easy to sand off, and filled the pin holes in one application. The two drawbacks are that it creates a lot more dust than the traditional way, and I had to wait overnight for the mud to dry. I guess that drywall helps to suck the water out of the mud. On fiberglass, it has to air dry so put it on thin.

To summarize, it's the only way I will fill pin holes from this point on.

Another point, this needs to be your last step before priming. You need to do all your surface filling and edge feathering using traditional products first. The only mud you want left on your part is in the pin holes. Also, don't worry about adhesion. The primer soaks into the mud in the pin hole. This seems to saturate it. I looked at them with a magnifying glass and they seemed unwilling to pop out FWIW.

Great suggestion. A real time saver.
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Randy Pflanzer
Greenwood, IN

www.pflanzer-aviation.com
Paid through 2043!
Lund fishing Boat, 2017, GONE FISHING
RV-12 - Completed 2014, Sold
427 Shelby Cobra - Completed 2012, Sold
F1 EVO - partially completed, Sold
F1 Rocket - Completed 2005, Sold
RV-7A - Partially completed, Sold
RV-6 - Completed 2000, Sold
Long-EZ - Completed 1987, Sold


Last edited by f1rocket : 09-24-2013 at 07:29 AM.
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