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  #21  
Old 08-30-2013, 05:34 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default Thanks for posting this

I had never seen it being a private pilot who got an instrument rating ~30 years ago in nice stable airplanes. I now fly the RV-6A with a TruTrak autopilot almost all the time. Nobody else knows my situation and I don't think or fly like anyone else but I understand the message as it applies to me even at my low level of automation. I have thought about the dependence on automation a lot in the past year or so and I have experienced autopilot failure twice since January of this year while flying IFR in IMC. The first time it was at night on departure from Amarillo International after I had flown all day from Ft. Bragg, California with a fuel stop in Prescott, AZ. The problem seemed to go away after cycling the power to it and I assumed it was something I had done. But the plane was rolling to the right in this instance. I saw it, I disengaged the autopilot and hand flew using the AS, AI, DG and VORs. It was "bothersome" (in the most serious way), I was fairly tired and if I had not been paying attention and living up to my responsibility I would be dead now. For my level of flying I think that is the message from this presentation - I as the pilot am responsible for the safe flight of the airplane and in that case I lived up to the responsibility. Later I made a day IFR departure (I believe the day vs. night requirements are significant) from Fayetteville, Arkansas to Pine Bluff and the plane started rolling off to the right again and again I caught it and hand flew the trip. When I returned I removed the unit an drove it up to Springdale and watched them perform a high level bench test which it passed. They offered to do a complete test and overhaul and I insisted on it. Later that day I went back and my unit was ready as promised and I was told that they found something broken inside when they tested and worked on the unit. It has performed flawlessly since that time. I have flown the plane 172.2 hours since January 1 of this year (August 30 now) so the plane is not just flown around the pattern and to pancake breakfasts. The message in the posted video was actually a little comforting to me knowing that it is a problem for all pilots not just me even though the magenta line (Garmin 695) is just a gross navigation reference to me. I actually prefer the SL-60 bearing to the next waypoint display for precision and use it to set the ground track angle on the Pictorial Pilot. Anyway, I don't see the value of arguing the merits of glass panels. In the little pilot world I live in the message for me (which I actually knew already) was use the automation wisely as it can kill you if you do not maintain situation awareness and exercise control when things go wrong.

Thanks Again,

Bob Axsom

Last edited by Bob Axsom : 08-30-2013 at 11:04 AM. Reason: typo
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  #22  
Old 08-30-2013, 09:01 AM
Eddie P's Avatar
Eddie P Eddie P is offline
 
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Location: Aptos, CA (previously Reno, 21 years!)
Posts: 247
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Well done Bob, you demonstrated exactly what it takes to "manage" automation rather than just "look at it" doing it's magic!
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2013, 12:53 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
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Default Air Facts

I have a large collection of Air Facts and never get tired of reading and rereading articles from the late thirties to the late 60's.
Form anyone who has not read "North Star over my Shoulder" this is a must read.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2013, 10:32 PM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Axsom View Post
In the little pilot world I live in the message for me (which I actually knew already) was use the automation wisely as it can kill you if you do not maintain situation awareness and exercise control when things go wrong.
We all live in the same little pilot world you do and I completely agree with your statement.
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  #25  
Old 08-31-2013, 05:17 AM
60av8tor 60av8tor is offline
 
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Location: Harrisburg, Pa
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I have mixed emotions about this topic. I recently helped a new student study for her written. Among other things, we covered flight planning. I went step by step through the FAA handbook - mainly because I wanted to teach her by the book, but also because I just don't do it any more.

As far as head in the cockpit, yes, TAA can lure you into more heads inside time. But if you recognize this, especially when you master all your systems, you can be more attentive to the outside than the conventional aviator. If you are attempting to precisely navigate - I'm talking precisely identifying airspace boundaries, etc in an unfamiliar area, not flying your home area for years - I promise I can be much more alert to external cues occasionally glancing at the MFD vs the finger to sectional searching for the railroad/highway intersection.

My litmus test is how I feel when the chips are down - IMC, busy approach frequency, unfamiliar approach. I will definitely be using the AP in this scenario, but I'm watching it like a hawk and covering the controls with thumb hovering above the disconnect button. At the first hint of anything wonky, off it comes - to get back to my comfort level. If this feeling is ever reversed, it is time to rethink your dependency. (I am not talking about temporary bouts with SD - leans, etc. In that case, I may consider turning on the AP if hand flying)
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RV-7A purchased flying - Sold 6/16
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Last edited by 60av8tor : 08-31-2013 at 05:23 AM.
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  #26  
Old 08-31-2013, 06:28 AM
dealfair dealfair is offline
 
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Location: George West, TX
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[quote=60av8tor;802988]
As far as head in the cockpit, yes, TAA can lure you into more heads inside time. But if you recognize this, especially when you master all your systems, you can be more attentive to the outside than the conventional aviator. If you are attempting to precisely navigate - I'm talking precisely identifying airspace boundaries, etc in an unfamiliar area, not flying your home area for years - I promise I can be much more alert to external cues occasionally glancing at the MFD vs the finger to sectional searching for the railroad/highway intersection.QUOTE]

Well stated and I agree with you. I'm terrified of possible mid-airs due to some close calls in my past. I find the AP on a X-country allows me to scan & swivel neck more.

Cheers & safe flying to all,
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  #27  
Old 09-01-2013, 04:41 AM
dutchroll dutchroll is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sydney, Australia
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I think the presentation certainly brings up some valid points about automation dependency, though the topic is more complicated than some people like to make out (ie, automation can also save the day too - it just depends on the circumstances).

At the very least it is much more circumspect and appropriate than the article below, which a private pilot friend of mine recently asked my opinion on (being ex-military, current airline, and also a private pilot myself):
http://flightaware.com/squawks/view/...ot_the_machine

Essentially I told him that while the concern about atrophy of pure flying skills in airline flying is valid, the author uses some extremely poor arguments along the way (e.g., comparing it to the days of "pilots being pilots" in WW2 is nonsensical - the accident rate in WW2 was appalling).

And also, we're not all like Asiana.
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  #28  
Old 09-01-2013, 01:51 PM
B25Flyer B25Flyer is offline
 
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To be clear I am NOT anti automation I'm very much pro automation but it still requires that the pilot maintain basic flying skills
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  #29  
Old 09-05-2013, 04:04 AM
Paris Paris is offline
 
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Location: Keller, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Adamson View Post
I do not care much for this video. It's often used as a reference by those, who tend to dismiss today's technology, and still push the agenda of VORs as being basic airmanship.
I'm not sure that's the message the video is trying to convey, but I agree it has been used by those who seek to demonize technology.

I flew right seat next to a retired airline captain a few times behind a G1000. I noticed instead of entering the entire flight plan he would always fly point to point. He would wait until right before he got to his waypoint before entering the next one. The reason he did this was because he didn't want to take the time to learn how to enter a flight plan into the G1000. He always flew with an IFR or VFR map in his lap. I've also flown with other pilots who knew the G1000 well and spent all their time pushing buttons with their head inside the airplane.

Whatever technology you have make sure it's working for you rather than the other way around.
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