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  #11  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:13 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
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I build by myself, you can do that. You will need some heated space, not much at first. If you use the VAF resources you can buy a lot of components 20-30% off, that saves on sales taxes too (if that matters to SD). I have an extra 6/7 cowling for instance. Just post what you need and it is amazing what people have sitting around.

It WILL take a lot of time, and it can be a strain on the family if not involved.

I think if you manage your expectations for engine, prop, avionics. You can to it. Stick with the plans and basics and the build will go quicker, much quicker.

You might keep an eye out for an older plane flying, there can be some real bargains too. Builders/pilots are getting older and selling their treasures.

Good Luck, you already found the worlds best resource team, VAF!
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RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2013, 07:24 PM
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Jamie Jamie is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,295
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This is something that I have reflected on a lot.

I built my -7A before I had kids. It was truly one of the most incredible, off-the-wall things I have done in my entire life. I had barely even changed the oil in my vehicles before I started building -- that was the extent of my hands-on skills.

Building was extremely rewarding. It took me 3 years, 6 months and 7 days until the first flight. I worked on the project every single evening. I can count on one hand the number of days that I did not work on the project -- and those days were because I was out of town. If I'm being completely honest I have to say that I neglected my wife. Yes, she was behind me and she supported me every step of the way, but there's no doubt that undertaking such a project impacts your personal life.

Now I have two kids (ages 3 and 5). I ended up selling my RV last September for a number of reasons but largely because of the kids. I felt as though I was neglecting them every time I headed out to the airport to work on the plane. One year I even loaded up the airplane and launched (solo) to Sun-n-fun and turned around at the Georgia/Florida border. I decided I'd rather spend my time off work with my little family than with a bunch of people in the dirt.

Plus -- and I'm being completely honest here -- priorities get aligned when you attend your friend's funeral. Yes, he died doing what he loved in his RV, but I have no doubt that he loved his beautiful little girls more. The point is that there's risk. Real risk. We can try to control it, but building and flying these airplanes -- any airplane -- adds real and measurable risk to your life. If you're comfortable with that risk that's completely OK. But let's not pretend and don't let anyone tell you that there's no additional risk.

Now, I'm not going to judge other people that have kids and continue to have their RV. Doug and many other well-known RVers have kids and are by all accounts outstanding fathers. I just know that for me -- personally -- knowing the cost in terms of time in the shop I cannot fathom building an airplane right now. Time is simply too fleeting and too precious.

My current plan (subject to change, of course) is to wait it out until my kids become teenagers. Then they'll take the usual teenage course of thinking that doing family stuff is completely lame and uncool and maybe then I'll have some free time.
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"What kind of man would live where there is no daring? I don't believe in taking foolish chances but nothing can be accomplished without taking any chance at all." - Charles A. Lindbergh
Jamie | RV-7A First Flight: 7/27/2007 (Sold)
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  #13  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:25 PM
Joe Parish Joe Parish is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sioux Falls, SD
Posts: 209
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Chris

Welcome to VAF!
I see from your profile you are interested in the RV 12. The 12 uses blind or pulled rivets so good for doing by yourself. Eaa chapter 289 is based at Lincoln county airport (Y14) by Tea, SD. We have a pancake breakfast the third Saturday of each month from 8:00 to 10:30. There are quite a few RV,s on the field. I believe the 3rd Saturday in October we are having a wings and wheels get together. A local hot rod group and the eaa member pilots bring out the cars and planes and invite the public to come check it out.

You and you alone know your finances. If you currently have room in your budget and your spouses blessing it is possible. The 12 if built as an e- lsa as van sells it the cost is all spelled out except for paint I believe. Feel free to pm or e- mail me if you have any questions. The gentleman Geico266 was referring to is Gayle Wilts. He started building RV's back in the 80's. Best of luck.
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RV-9A N525XC
Superior IO-320
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  #14  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:55 PM
douglassmt douglassmt is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 714
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Send me a PM or email with your contact info and location. I am going to be in Grand Forks ND Sept 14-18 and might have some free time. I might be able to fly down and give you a ride and some straight poop on the whole experience.
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  #15  
Old 09-03-2013, 08:56 PM
Wayne Gillispie Wayne Gillispie is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 1,499
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My wife and two children(6 & 9 at the time we started) built our -10 in two years on two average incomes. Yes, with some sacrificing anything is possible. We have no satellite TV at home, rarely dine out except for family trips in the plane monthly and drive 11 & 13 yr old vehicles. Yes, there is risk. We have all known someone close that has been in an accident and have learned from them. I can say that I have had many more close calls in my truck or motorcycle for equal time. You can save a lot of weight, time and money during the build if you keep it simple. Don't try to build another person's dream plane. My IFR equipped plane has never logged one minute of IFR. We have had a blast VFR and rarely had to delay coming home. When we did, we already made allowances for that and continued enjoying our vacation. Good luck and keep us posted.
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  #16  
Old 09-03-2013, 09:14 PM
Dave Taylor's Avatar
Dave Taylor Dave Taylor is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 176
Default Build vs Buy

Ask yourself this question. Do you really want to build an airplane? You can buy for about the same price as you can build. Maybe even cheaper. I have a wife and 3 kids and until recently lived on a single income. I am building an airplane because I really want to build. I guess you'd say I am a slow builder. I work on the plane when I want to and for how long I want to. It gets frustrating at times (took two years to get my tanks leak free) but when major pieces go together permanently, there is a great feeling of accomplishment. See if you can get the kids involved. I think you'd be hard pressed to build without any help at all. Ask your wife if she is willing to lend a hand when you need it. You can build most of the airplane without any help but sometimes you really need a second set of hands. My two oldest could care less about the airplane. My 8 year old gives me h*ll when I don't work on it. If you really want to build you can definitely do it. I am lucky that I have builders in the area (thanks Bruce!) to lend a hand when needed and give sage advice, but if your wife is on board with helping you can definitely do it. Just my 2 cents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpfeifer View Post
Hi guys, just to give a little info about myself I'm married with 2 young kids and my wife stays home with them so I live on a single income. I CAN'T STOP thinking about build an RV. I live in the middle of nowhere in South Dakota and don't know anyone who has built an airplane nor do I have any experience at it either. So I guess my question is can I realistically do this all by myself?
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"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to be continually fearing you will make one. "
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  #17  
Old 09-03-2013, 10:25 PM
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aarvig aarvig is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KANE, Hugo, Minnesota
Posts: 765
Default Absolutely YES!!!

Yes, you can do it. I have three little kids (8,7, and 5) and am slowly but steadily working on my project. I started it when my wife and I barely made any money combined. I made rapid progress. Now, my wife and I are doing well financially and I have no time. Funny how that works. I have accepted the fact that since we have three little kids the plane will not progress at the uberspeeds you see some builders accomplish. It will however, one day be finished. When that is, I don't care. Between then and now I have a hobby that is phenomonally rewarding that will eventually produce a dramatic result. One of the posters who responded to your question I think posted some very interesting thoughts regarding risk and priorities that I think you need to evaluate. Determine your comfort level with the risks of experimental aircraft and move forward or backward accordingly. Me, heck, you could get killed running along the road by a gang of thugs with nothing better to do. You could also get sick and die before your time. Life is to short to shelve passions for a later date. I vote go for it.
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RV-9A
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  #18  
Old 09-04-2013, 12:25 AM
Bob Axsom Bob Axsom is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,685
Default You are right to be concerned - it is not an easy or cheap or fast task

I don't know what the failure to complete rate is but I suspect it is high. I built an RV-6A with my Wife in our garage with no outside help. The entire process through final painting took 8 years but I made the first flight in ~7.5 years. We had no children we did it on my income and an equity line of credit on our home. We owned an Archer II during that time.

The fact that you are an owner pilot already is a BIG plus in so many ways.

Family - Since you already have two kids you have an extra constraint to deal with. A Cessna is a great family travel airplane and in an RV you would need a RV-10 if your plan is to replace the Cessna and have the same passenger capacity. That is a family thing that you alone can work out. It will be best I think if the whole family is involved in the project. It will be a life changing experience for you all - hopefully a good one.

Money - It is very expensive - on the order of buying a house as opposed to buying a car. I have a hunch you can find a way to swing it. Many people start with a tail kit and commit progressively. I was 60 at the time and it was a quick build all at once decision for us with the finish kit, the engine & prop and the avionics left for purchase as we reached the point where we needed them to flow into our little production effort.

Facilities - We built ours in half of a 2-car garage - we were resourceful - parts and materials were stored throughout the house - especially in the beginning - kids will be a concern there.

Skill - If you have no aircraft sheet metal work experience I consider it absolutely essential that you get some formal class training before buying the kit. I did this with a one week course that Van's staff taught at the time (no longer available). It is not hard at all but there are key talents, methods, skills that that the trade has developed over many years you must learn and apply to build a good airplane. Lessons learned on your own airplane or worse, lessons not learned at all need to be avoided. In a few days in a class environment you can learn everything you need to know to do the work. You still will need to make custom tools and do some improvisation but you will have an idea of correctness as you size up each challenge. I worked in Aerospace for 50 years and to young adulthood I built control line and free flight model airplanes so I have a pretty good eye for design and I was immediately impressed with the real airplane maturity of the designs. They are designed to be high performance metal airplanes with no compromises to "make it easy to build." That requires you to have or acquire the skills to do real aircraft quality work.

Unexpected benefits - it is impossible to go through the airplane building process and not grow as a person in parts of life that you never imagine. Self confidence, reliance, problem solving, planning - all that stuff will be elevated to a new level if you stick to it and succeed. Even if you fail to complete the airplane I think this is true.

OK I'm running out of gas, I have to start a trip to Ephrata, Washington in the morning to fly the RV-6A completed in 2004 in a cross country air race.

Good luck with your decision - I think you are enjoying the conceptual process already.

Bob Axsom
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  #19  
Old 09-04-2013, 05:51 AM
wilddog wilddog is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: va.
Posts: 523
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Since you have a c-172, fly around to some airports with RV activity and see first hand what is involved and meet some builders for advice. Airplanes are built with a collection of little jobs and none of them are difficult with the proper tools and methods, sure you will trash some parts but that is expected while learning. If you have a shop at home and can afford it w/o cutting corners elsewhere, I don't think the kids would be a problem. They may well be helpers before you're done and co-pilots later.
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  #20  
Old 09-04-2013, 06:10 AM
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rbibb rbibb is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Freericksburg, VA
Posts: 624
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I believe anyone can build an RV if they put their mind to it. The are over 8000 data points that prove it. The great thing about building is you control the timetable. Took me 8 years to build my -4 because I chose to spend time schlepping my young daughter all over the east coast playing travel soccer at the time. You can chose when you work on it.

As for risk well who hasn't heard of someone being hit head on by a drunk driver, etc. But like most things in life you get to decide the amount of risk you take on. I never understood the amount of concern my father must have had when I first took off on a solo X-country in the Champ he taught me to fly in. But I am eternally greatful he gave me the opportunity. Nuff said, to each his own, etc.

As for doing it yourself - yes you can.

If finances are an issue consider building one of the older kits that aren't so pre-fabricated. When I built the -4 my labor rate was $0/hour and I spread out the costs over, well, 8 years. The building was as satisfying as the flying, almost....

With sites like this and builder pages the is literally nothing about building you can't learn about and thousands of people all to willing to cheer you on.

One last thing. Enroll your family in the journey. It will be a thankless trek without them and presents many opportunities to create the memories that so enrichen the fabric of life if they come along for the ride.

Don't take counsel from your fears....

Richard Bibb
Stafford, Va
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