Children of Magenta

[L.Adamson]

There is a lot of "what about this, and what about that"........ in reference to my statements. Back around 2005, there was a flight instructor pushing his old world agenda. He constantly referred to GPS as a toy. Even a fancy toy, as well as a seductive toy. Toys generally are for children. Children of the Magenta Line, implies the same thing. This program is 16 years old. The magenta line has progressed greatly since that time.

I'm very aware of the particulars for all of these CFIT accidents. I've probably read the why's and wherefors, dozens of times. I seem to have an obsession with CFIT, ever since a United Airlines DC-8 plowed into the mountain close to home (1977). I've made it a point, to include many CFIT accident sites within my flight planning. I want to see, what the pilot didn't see, and document how the the terrain mapping GPS does it's job.

Some might think my thoughts are morbid. I like the editorial thoughts I read about in Flying magazine last evening. It's pure science & self preservation.

Never the less, put it on record, that I'll disagree with many thoughts presented in this thread. A nice "big picture" color moving map, with red & yellow flashing warning signs, as well as audio............probably won't be simply ignored, as it's been suggested. With today's magenta line, you get everything that they didn't have. A color presentation of where you departed, where your destination is, and the exact spot, of where your airplane is now. And it's all filled in with red & yellow splotches of color, where nesessary. Todays magenta line works.......and saves lives.

[airguy]

My primary instructor referred to it as "The Magenta Line Of Death" and wouldn't let me use it until I had firmly demonstrated basic navigation - and even then he was fond of turning it off occasionally and telling me to go somewhere we hadn't talked about to check my situational awareness. That was a lot of years ago and the technology has advanced a lot (and my instructor was basically an idiot chasing hours for a corporate gig) but he was mostly right about that point. Technology is a great aid - but it needs to be an aid to a pilot that can operate without it.

[NASA515]

Absolutely no argument from me. I'm flying Dynon Skyview with an iFly backup and think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

But this video and discussion is not about CFITs, it's about cockpit automation and the dangers lurking therein. Automation was supposed to make flying safer and reduce crew workloads. While it has done that successfully - in many instances - it has created its own set of problems and aircraft accidents have occurred, and are occurring, that can be laid at the doorstep of that automation and our new high tech toys. That is a bad thing.

In some cases, pilots allow themselves to become "system monitors." Studies have shown that humans make lousy system monitors. Pilots need to reinsert themselves into the loop.

CFIT accidents may have been wiped out or greatly reduced due to the new technology - that's great; but instead we have new accident modes, like large transport airplanes stalling. You can read about some of them - the SFO 777 accident is one more in the collection - in one section of my website here:

http://www.rbogash.com/Safety/air_safety.html

One more thing, while the moving map reds and yellows are wonderful things, they disappear when the GPS disappears. And it can. Google GPS Dropouts for a lot of discussions. You can even go to an FAA site that NOTAMs GPS coverage problems:

http://www.raimprediction.net/ac90-100/

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G

[Buggsy2]

Originally Posted by L.Adamson

With today's magenta line, you get everything that they didn't have. A color presentation of where you departed, where your destination is, and the exact spot, of where your airplane is now. And it's all filled in with red & yellow splotches of color, where nesessary. Todays magenta line works.......and saves lives.

I think you've missed the point of the video, or at least are not acknowledging it here.

The take-home message I got was, don't let the automation lull and distract the pilot so much that they cannot recover situational awareness quickly. And don't try to quickly recover from a deteriorating situation by reprogramming the FMC or autopilot or whatever. Instead, turn off the automation and fly the plane out of danger using the situational awareness you've kept onto.

So lets redo the AA situation with modern equipment but without the lessons of the video. The crew becomes aware earlier that something is wrong with their automated flight path, but then proceeds to try reprogramming their computer instead of turning off the automation (going down a level) and flying out of danger. They still become so distracted they fly into the mountain...only this time, they see it coming.

Again, the video's lessons were spot-on for the Asiana crew. If they had been taught and absorbed those lessons their fatal accident never would have happened.

[B25Flyer]

What ever you call it, the problem is real.... The more you fly with the magic and the more magic you fly with the harder it is to revert back to the basics....

And when the horse hockey hits the proverbial propeller, it is the pilots ability to ignore the automation and focus on the basics that will save the day....

When the automation flat out quits, it isn't too hard... The real tough one is when it is not doing what we expect, the default action for a type -A pilot is to engage in a fight with it... And giving up in a fight with the magic, ignoring it, and focusing on the basics is a very difficult thing for an aviator.....

Too many times I have seen two heads down in a fist fight with the FMS and NOBODY driving the airplane....

I am looking in the mirror when I say, it is a real problem, and ALL of us are susceptible....

[GalinHdz]

Originally Posted by NASA515

But this video and discussion is not about CFITs, it's about cockpit automation and the dangers lurking therein. Automation was supposed to make flying safer and reduce crew workloads. While it has done that successfully - in many instances - it has created its own set of problems and aircraft accidents have occurred, and are occurring, that can be laid at the doorstep of that automation and our new high tech toys. That is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by B25Flyer

When the automation flat out quits, it isn't too hard... The real tough one is when it is not doing what we expect...

I am looking in the mirror when I say, it is a real problem, and ALL of us are susceptible....

Exactly what I got out of the video. Automation is an excellent tool to reduce workload and make flying safer. HOWEVER it has created a different set of problems that we must be able to identify and overcome. In this case, reverting to basic airmanship (FLY THE AIRPLANE) until we are back in control is the best alternative.

My 2cents

[Doug]

How many of us are confident/competent to navigate (route and airspace) without the support of a GPS in whatever form it takes?
How many can hand fly our RVs for extended periods maintaining heading and say +/- 30' alt without an autopilot?
Am I wrong in believing this should be a minimum requirement? These are just basic aviating skills.

[L.Adamson]

Let's jump back a few years. To 1951. It's a great read....

Connie flight from Paris to Cairo

http://airfactsjournal.com/2013/08/c...to-cairo-1951/

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by B25Flyer

What ever you call it, the problem is real.... The more you fly with the magic and the more magic you fly with the harder it is to revert back to the basics....

The basics haven't been good enough. I believe there is still the remnants of a B-25 engine, on the east side of Mt. Timpanogos. That's just west of Heber (McDonald Field) where you flew the B-25 a few years back. It crashed, due to disorientation, back in 55'.

And one more mountain range, to the west, a multiple engine fire fighting aircraft slammed into the side of the mountain, at 240 knots, back in 2009. For this event, the flying first officer kept telling the captain, that the Garmin 396 portable was showing red. It was a bit of scud running, and the captain either didn't hear, as he was giving verbal heading instructions, or.....?

When you see a map, of all the CFIT in this state of Utah, it looks like the red poppies, that cover the field in the Wizard of OZ. I'm quite thrilled, that we have more "magic", these days. But then of course, it's not magic by any means. Just a much better source of information, than all of those people and airplanes, that the red dots represent.....had..

At the end of the day, that 757 did the same thing, with the same results.

[Eddie P]

The basic message is know where you are, where you are going, and where you want to be at all times by actively maintaining situation awareness between your crew, your aircraft, your environment and your own projected plan.

Far too often today people rely on some sort of automation to do basic things for them and are unprepared to bear the burden of monitoring the actual performance of the automation. In a flight environment this is deadly hazardous. While I am a huge fan of technology and automation, I am also a staunch advocate of appropriately managing the automation in a way compatible with human factors. This means maintain situation awareness and use the rule of 3. in other words, 1/3 of the time let the magic do it's thing. 1/3 of the time you do everything (raw data, make your own descent profiles with basic pilot math, hand fly the approach, etc), and 1/3 of the time use a mixture of automation levels. This maintains a good overall level of familiarity and recency in transitioning all modes and still retaining our basic airmanship.

As it has been said here, we have piles of data confirming empirically that humans are rotten system monitors and fail at this task over time. Alternatively, humans are very good at spotting errors and threats while making novel changes to provide an adequate solution - something automation is poorly suited for. It used to be that the regular tasks of flying challenged pilots enough to keep them "in the loop" at all times and thus spotting hazards and errors and then achieving effective solutions to these was all but guaranteed.

I'm not saying automation is bad, but I am saying automation that is not approached with respect can and will lead the user astray. The "Children of the Magenta Line" promotes a good respect of the traps and hazards associated with automation.