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08-29-2013, 02:52 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Near Scipio, in Southern Indiana
Posts: 1,779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweyant
Let me throw out another option, actually for anyone that might be interested.
I teach a high school engineering program ( www.pltw.org). As part of a grant from our local city I have been able to put together a really nice machine shop/prototype lab.
The cornerstone of the lab is a Haas 4-axis Mini Mill 2. We haven't had the equipment setup for very long, and we are still just learning to use it (students, and myself).
I would be quite interested in helping machine parts for anyone that is interested (I also have a Fortus 250mc for rapid prototyping). We are just learning MasterCAM, but if you can supply me with GCode, I think we can make the part for you.
Just keep in mind this is a high school program, and we are still learning.
-Dan
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Gee, Dan, haven't you heard of 3-D printers? They seem to be everywhere. Just design a part, and it magically appears, almost like in Star Trek.
You are to be applauded for teaching that things can still be fabricated by tried and true methods, and that the mind still has a part in the manufacturing process. I don't think anyone wants to go back to when things were all hand made, and adding the computer to the build process was a big step forward. Removing man totally from the equation, however, is a mistake, at least in the learning process. PLTW is wonderful, but I hate to see only 3-D printers as the only actual fabricating machine. Machining could become a dying art form.
Bob
__________________
Bob Kelly, Scipio, Indiana
Tech Counselor
Founder, Eagle's Nest Projects
President, AviationNation, Inc
RV-9A N908BL, Flying
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08-29-2013, 02:57 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobobk
Gee, Dan, haven't you heard of 3-D printers? They seem to be everywhere. Just design a part, and it magically appears, almost like in Star Trek.
You are to be applauded for teaching that things can still be fabricated by tried and true methods, and that the mind still has a part in the manufacturing process. I don't think anyone wants to go back to when things were all hand made, and adding the computer to the build process was a big step forward. Removing man totally from the equation, however, is a mistake, at least in the learning process. PLTW is wonderful, but I hate to see only 3-D printers as the only actual fabricating machine. Machining could become a dying art form.
Bob
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Bob,
We have and use quite a bit a 3D printer (Fortus 250). It is a wonderful tool, and we help fund the program's scholarship fund by doing quick turn parts for local businesses.
However, you are correct. Machining is becoming a lost art form. So much so that I was able to convince the cities economic development council to foot the bill for the equipment to train the kids. We have a ton of local businesses that are just begging to get employees that even have the very basics of machining.
Of course if I can make a few parts for my RV-9 in the process, all the better  .
-Dan
__________________
Dan Weyant
RV-9A N96KD
Done and Flying 4/30/2015
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08-29-2013, 02:59 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: 07TS
Posts: 472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videobobk
Gee, Dan, haven't you heard of 3-D printers? They seem to be everywhere. Just design a part, and it magically appears, almost like in Star Trek.
Bob
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Funny you mention Star Trek. The first 3D printer I ever saw was about 20 years ago. I was at a job interview for a company that made them. They wanted me to redesign the user interface.
If I remember correctly the machines cost in the $750,000+ range, but holly cow! I couldn't believe the technology. I went home and told my wife that they build the Star Trek replicator, just a bit slower  .
-Dan
__________________
Dan Weyant
RV-9A N96KD
Done and Flying 4/30/2015
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08-29-2013, 03:41 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h3x8P42dLM
Funny I just happened to take a video last night while machining some stuff.
About the 45 sec. mark you will see the H-pulley gear I 3D printed on my RepRap which drives the Z-axis.
__________________
Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
N678X F1 Rocket, under const.
N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
N8155F C150 flying
N7925P PA-24-250 Comanche, restoring
Not a thing I own is stock.
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08-29-2013, 03:52 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scappoose
Posts: 119
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Maybe look for a used machine
Maybe you can look for a used machine? I dont know what the converted machines are selling for, but we bought a used HAAS VF2 a couple years ago for about 10K.
It was a tremendous increase in quality over a converted machine.
We dont use it for serious production work, but it has been my go to machine for little toy projects since it is easy to setup. It is kind of slow, but definitely will get the job done!!!
I found it on Craigslist of all places...
Well, I just looked at the example you posted and am going to guess you are not real anxious to spend 10k on this. Sorry!! I should have looked at your example first.
Last edited by Richard@Langair : 08-29-2013 at 03:55 PM.
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08-29-2013, 05:42 PM
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Invercargill New Zealand
Posts: 15
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CNC Machining
About ten years ago while working in England I purchased a non working Shizuoka cnc bed mill ( slightly bigger table and travels than a Bridgeport)and shipped it home to Southern New Zealand
It ran stepper motors and I converted it to PC operation running Dolphin cad/cam software.
Starting out with a non working allready converted cnc machine that has ball screws on it travels is a big advantage over a fresh conversion
It allows 'climb milling' that provides a better finish and lower tool wear compared to 'conventional' milling. Without ball screws (They have no back-lash) the tool will bite in due to the direction of tool rotation.
I'm building a RV-3B (#11465) from bare materials. and use this machine to make the parts that lean towards cnc manufacture.
Re: the discussion on a matched hole RV-3, some drill,cut,and file parts could be on a dvd.- draw them as dxf files, and this would allow builders with either a cnc router or mill to quickly make parts very accurately.
If manufacturers of radios and parts supplied dxf files of their cut outs, it may encourage builders to use their products.
I cut a shaped hole for the latest Dynon com radio but had to redraw the dimensions given to provide a machining file. Drawing/coding/checking time about 1 hour.
Machining the panel time- 4 minutes.
About three days ago there was a very good set of pictures and story on the Thatcher CX4 forum. where the builder uses a cnc router to make parts and drill accurate holes for his aircraft.
Certainly has its uses, one of my 'clients thought that once you had the drawing on disc- you just walked round the back of the machine and held out you hands for the parts to fall into!
Neil Robertson
Invercargill
New Zealand
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08-29-2013, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 659
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I used a homebuilt machine for some work. It isn't super fancy or super expensive, but did what I needed it to do.

__________________
Andy Compton, PhD EE
RV-10 - #41414 (building)
RV-9A - N643AC (built,flying,sold,missed)
My blood and sweat, the Wifey's tears
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08-30-2013, 03:42 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 251
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How about a CNC router instead?
Mike,
I have a converted Sieg X3 in the garage which is the same as the Grizzly. The truth about these machines is that they are not that well built. I know you said you didn't want to hear that - but hear me out - I own one.
The X3 is designed for hand wheels - not CNC. The DC motors and controllers for the spindle are unstable. Having the cutter stop is acceptable with hand wheels. It gets boring by the time you snap your third carbide end mill. They only do 2,000RPM. For aluminium you will want 4,000 RPM at least. The ways are not particularly well finished and the head is difficult to tram.
I have a very nice machine now with ball screws, double ball nuts, new US made motor controller, 4,000 RPM spindle, US made Gecko stepper controller, totally rewired, ways machined etc. It takes time, research, knowledge and money to do it (and I got a head start with a PROMiCA kit). As others have said I might have been better to find something else ready to go. I've enjoyed the journey though.
The other thing you will find is that the machine has a small working envelope. (400mm X 180-200mm Y and 400mm Z). That is pretty big for a hobbyist but not big enough for mass production or large parts. To do instrument panels you need something bigger.
If your heart is set on an X3, can I suggest either the KX3, Syil X4 or one of their bigger models. Either of these machines can be had for around $5,000 in your part of the world at the moment. You will get a head start and when you sell it it will probably be worth something as the buyer will know what it is. Despite how it looks, I can tell you that these machines are cheap compared with a converted X3 and you will be cutting quickly. That said, they are built to a price.
You may be wise to consider some of the other machines people mentioned. However, the X3 style machine will fit in your garage. Some of the others would be great machines, but too big for me.
Something else to consider. You may get better use out of a CNC Router. I just purchased a unit from a CNC company in China. I had been thinking of building a Mechmate for a while, but I could not come close to matching the quality for the price of the Chinese machine. I was able to use the knowledge gained from my research to spec the machine I wanted. The cutting envelope is 4 feet X 8 feet and over 1 foot high. I think that the above probably gives you an idea of my view on converting machines at this point.
Timber is cheap and the software for machining it is more user friendly(Vectric as an example). These machines will cut aluminium if you keep the cutting loads down and use mist coolant. Instrument panels in 0.040 or 0.090 would be no problem, but you will not get as good a result as laser or jet cut as even with a small end mill you can’t make square corners. Sometimes you just have to use a file
For thin aluminium sheet you really need a vacuum table or to sandwich the sheet between some heavier material.
Do not forget that the machine is the cheap part. Then you need software, tooling and materials.
Cheers
__________________
Richard Talbot
RV-7A
Sydney, Australia
Last edited by rwtalbot : 08-30-2013 at 03:44 AM.
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08-30-2013, 04:39 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Redmond, WA
Posts: 269
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Thanks to everyone for their replies. I have been on the road; however was reading them as they were posted.
rwtalbot, I appreciate your feedback in particular. What I was trying to avoid is the tired old "American Vintage" vs. "Asian Innovation" debate. I believe that the market has both, and people are free to choose whichever makes sense for them. Like most religious arguments there is neither a right answer or an end to the argument.
Going to think a bit more. This is a hobby interest, not a commercial one, so tolerances are not as rigorous. Nonetheless like a lot of us I want to get what I pay for. And at the moment I am going to ponder without spending.
Mike
__________________
-- Mike Culver;
RV-9 project sold  but details of the build at
www.mculver.com
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08-31-2013, 04:35 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 182
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Actually, the G0704 is not the same as the Sieg X3. Completely different casting, different head setup, different table. Different machine. Having said that, I don't have either of them. When I looked into getting a mill, the G0704 was a good candidate, but I ended up with a RF45 clone (so far manual, but I'm planning to convert it).
Have a look around on cnczone. There are lots of reports about the G0704. If you are tight in time, there are also conversion kits for the G0704 around. If you search for something like "g0704 bdtools kit" that should give you an entry point for reading a couple of days. Again, I can't offer first hand experience for that mill, I've only read a lot.
I suggest you read some more, make up your mind about what you want to do with it (and "playing in the workshop" is a legitimate answer, I think!), and then decide on the way to achieve this.
__________________
Hendrik
Club-Libelle: flying
RV-8: on hold (new job  , new home  , no workshop (yet)  )
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