Help from ATC

[vlittle]

Here is a ATC related question that I have not been able to get a satisfactory answer for.

Scenario:

The Tower clears you Downwind left for Runway 27. Once established, the Tower calls "you are number 2 for landing, behind the Cessna turning final".

What I did was wait for the Cessna to pass, then I started to turn Base with the intent of following him in.

The tower calls "you were not cleared to turn base, extend your downwind!", which I then did. In fact, I made a point of extending the downwind so long, that I almost exited the control zone before I called "long downwind Runway 27".

What did I do wrong? Does the instruction "follow" automatically include any maneuvers required to do so? Do I always need a specific clearance or instruction on Downwind before turning base? Should I remind the tower on Downwind for an instruction or clearance?

Thanks

[Ron Lee]

IMO, the tower should have stated that they would call your base.

[ColoRv]

Cleared to turn base? Unless they say they will call my base, I believe it is up to me to decide. As for the Cessna, I typically turn base when the preceding traffic passes my wing unless they are significantly slower than me.

"Number two for landing" isn't exactly "cleared to land" but I would have suffered the same confusion as you did I suspect with the same result. A controller who was still learning his craft perhaps? I think I would have asked for a tower phone number after landing to get some clarification.

There are far more experienced pilots than me in here, if you were in the wrong...they will come by and educate us both.

[N64GH]

Well my better half is a controller at LAX I sent her your question.

[N546RV]

Originally Posted by Ron Lee

IMO, the tower should have stated that they would call your base.

Agreed. Unless I'm given explicit instructions, I assume that I should fly a normal pattern by my judgment, and the tower will let me know if I need to do something different.

I frequently hear "I'll call your base" and "extend your downwind" and such. I don't think I've ever heard a tower controller explicitly say "turn base and final, your discretion."

[DaAV8R]

I would have asked. When in doubt, ask. Much easier than a violation.

[jrs14855]

Different procedures in Canada?????

[java]

General comment on how I see things working at my local controlled airport...

Typically, tower will say something like, "Zulu Oscar Kilo, you are number two for three six. Your traffic is a Cessna on left base, two miles at your eleven o'clock." I will respond that I'm looking for traffic. If / when I spot it, I will tell them I have the traffic, and then happily choose when I turn base and final, and have never had an issue with it. If I don't, I will tell them "No joy on the traffic" and ask them to call my base. My general sense is once I've given them confidence that I know what is in front of me (not necessarily that they've told me what's there, but that I've said I've seen it), then they let me work it out. Until then they're skeptical.

My guess is that the tower didn't know you had the traffic in sight and got all uppity thinking you didn't know they were there. That said, if they're on top of what's going on in their control zone, they should've seen you weren't in conflict, and had no issue.

Disclaimer... I'm no controller and have no idea what they're dealing with.

[Bob Axsom]

You are responsible for flying the plane and using good judgement in executing your responsibility. The controller is in the real time situation too and probably thought your turn was going to compromise what was in the controller's mind of how things should proceed and responded with the first thing that came to mind. I wouldn't take it too much to heart as a precedent setting event. You probably have much more experience than the controller but they need a little slack for being human as well in how they deal with their responsibility.

Bob Axsom

[Denase]

The controller did not tell you to follow traffic cleared for the visual. You should have maintained the downwind heading, until advised to do different.