Did anyone see the BRS chute for RV-7 / 9 at Oshkosh? - Page 2

diamond · #11 08-08-2013, 08:46 PM

What does it take to deploy it? Hopefully the chances of accidental deployment are equal to or less than the chances of accidental airbag deployment in my car on the freeway.

rv7boy · #12 08-08-2013, 09:38 PM

Personally I'd rather have those air bags that are built into the seatbelt/harness like my friend's 2008 C182T. But the last time I asked the AmSafe folks at Oshkosh, they have no plans for providing them to homebuilt aircraft anytime soon.

If I were an entrepreneur, I think I would design and market them to the experimental market. Anyone?

rwhittier · #13 08-08-2013, 10:29 PM

Because this installation is not tested you could never know, the first user will be a test pilot. The Cirrus chute was tested in spins, inverted, etc... So we do know how it will perform. We do not know how this side deployed one will work without actual testing.

Not to let this degrade into a never ending chute debate that non believers will never buy, the fact is there are many examples in real life situations that the chute saved lives. Examples that have happened:

- a debilitating brain issue that caused the pilot to black out.
- inadvertent spins.
- engine failures over hostile terrain or water.
- instrument failure in IMC.
- midair collision.

There are about 40 Cirrus deployment saves and almost a 100 people that are alive today because of it. There are more in other types, by BRS's count several 100. Too many macho types dismiss the chute, but the data is pretty compelling if you look at it objectively.

The facts are that a under control forced landing executed perfectly still carries an order of magnitude more energy potential than the energy under the chute. Speed kills. Deployed within design parameters chutes have saved lives, whether it is a ultralight, a Cirrus or one of the STC'ed installations.

That said, I am not interested in this one, at least not in its current state.

Quote:

Originally Posted by walkman

I assume that this will not help an aircraft in an unusual attitude, or a spin for example. Perhaps I'm wrong. I don't see it being much help in an inverted spin for example.

rv8ch · #14 08-09-2013, 12:21 AM

The install I saw looked pretty clean, considering what they need to do. The BRS systems have saved a lot of lives, that's for sure, both in Cirrus aircraft and in lots of ultralights.

I understand parachutes and ejection seats were considered to be "only for wimps" when they were released. Pilots also resisted enclosed cockpits in the early days. We're not really quick to embrace change.

Smilin' Jack · #15 08-09-2013, 05:07 AM

Added to the cost is the budgeted repacking or inspection of the system.
Some one mentioned a mid air... You might not make it..

I believe if you fly IFR in single engine aircraft or at night IFR or night VFR over mountains a good portion of your total time, this is a viable option to consider.

Below a couple thousand feet above the ground, the chutes are probable worthless especially when you look at the articles of accidents involving Cirrus aircraft that have crashed while below 1000 feet.

You have to be trained to instinctually to pull the chute and avoid the normal reaction to fly the aircraft and resolve the problem. This is not an ejection seat
Jack

bacstabber · #16 08-09-2013, 07:36 AM

Here are a couple of photos of the BRS installation.

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bacstabber/9472957368/" title="IMG_0152 by Jack Clark, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2811/9472957368_c27bc48047_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="IMG_0152"></a>[/IMG]

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bacstabber/9472957786/" title="IMG_0154 by Jack Clark, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/9472957786_3da82835f3_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="IMG_0154"></a>[/IMG]

bacstabber · #17 08-09-2013, 07:42 AM

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bacstabber/9472957368/" title="IMG_0152 by Jack Clark, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2811/9472957368_c27bc48047_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="IMG_0152"></a>[/IMG]

[IMG]<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/bacstabber/9472957786/" title="IMG_0154 by Jack Clark, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5449/9472957786_3da82835f3_c.jpg" width="800" height="600" alt="IMG_0154"></a>[/IMG]

Ron Lee · #18 08-09-2013, 08:10 AM

Rather than look at raw numbers, examine each event where a parachute system "saved" the plane occupants and rule out those where poor judgement was a primary factor.

In my opinion, more people would be saved from not making obvious poor decisions than by using a parachute.

Example from a plane based at my airport

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...03X14843&key=1

bacstabber · #19 08-09-2013, 08:17 AM

Finally got it right on the third attempt!

java · #20 08-09-2013, 09:27 AM

Thanks for those pics Jack. I didn't see that 7-A at Osh.

What I DID see was BRS in their booth in one of the hangars, where they had a 7/9 fuselage (no wings, no empennage, no FWF, no gear) set up and showing their solution. It was not completely unlike your pictures, with the following differences:

The front strap attach point was at the firewall (like in your pics), but the strap was faired along the side of the fuse rather than apparently traveling through the wing root in your pics.

The fairing for the straps was a bit different. Less "rounded" and more square and trim. They didn't have it finished/painted, so final appearance not evident, but like others have said, it looked like it could be well hidden with a good paint scheme.

The 7A in your pics appears to have a side discharge out of the baggage compartment area, whereas at the BRS booth it was side discharge out of the fuse behind the baggage bulkhead. The solution in your pics may help with CofG issues, but use baggage space.

It's not really evident from your pics, but at the BRS booth the rear attach point for the straps was to a bulkhead behind the main baggage bulkhead (they wanted it back far enough not to interfere with a slider mechanism). It attached centrally to the top of the bulkhead, but then had stringers in a triangle to tie it into the two bottom corners of the bulkhead as well, along with some beefy looking attach points added at the bottom corners.

I'm wondering if your pics of the 7A is someone's "home brewed" version of installing the chute, and BRS is now looking at providing a kit for a "standard" installation? I think I saw pics quite awhile ago of a 6 that someone had installed a chute on as well?

I have no editorial comment on the usefulness/need of a chute. I'll leave that to others with the time/desire to enter into it.