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08-06-2013, 06:33 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Keep in mind that most of the piston aircraft engine fleet runs just fine on auto fuel. Yes, there are some system level issues to overcome due to the trash they add to the fuel, but that hurdle is a whole lot easier than design and integration of a new engine.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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08-06-2013, 07:53 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madredr1
Oh, I'm not deciding to go down that path, I was just curious - I see the subaru conversion, corvette powered RV10s, and just thought "why not a Sportbike Engine?"
I am pretty nervous about the future of 100LL, which is why the alternative engine route caught my attention....
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They won't orphan tens of thousands of aircraft with no alternate unleaded aviation fuel. At least 3 companies are working towards solutions. The first one who takes the plunge to get production and distribution rolling with the blessings of the FAA and the major existing avgas suppliers will probably be the winners. The production and distribution are pretty big things to handle for a startup in my view. Most of the Lycoming engines in RVs can operate just fine on 91 unleaded mogas already.
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08-06-2013, 08:13 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Fact...there's a guy here in Alabama with a CBR Honda on a Drifter-class two place. Has a bunch of hours on it, like maybe 1000. Drives the airframe-mounted propshaft with the standard bike chain, using the standard transmission. And yes, he can shift in flight.
Gotta be careful about what you claim won't work 
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Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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08-06-2013, 08:24 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
Fact...there's a guy here in Alabama with a CBR Honda on a Drifter-class two place. Has a bunch of hours on it, like maybe 1000. Drives the airframe-mounted propshaft with the standard bike chain, using the standard transmission. And yes, he can shift in flight.
Gotta be careful about what you claim won't work 
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Cool!
Well we engine and bike guys know that a Japanese sport bike engine is not going to blow up or wear out in 20 hours running at 2/3rds redline...
As you say, many people simply speculate without facts or knowledge. I've seen some pretty simple conversions work and work well for a long time and others which never worked well, even after years of development. It's all in the details but the basic modern bike or auto engine is usually very well engineered and very reliable, even under severe use.
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08-06-2013, 08:28 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
Posts: 2,180
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Bike engines are an interesting idea, but probably not workable due to the high duty cycle already mentioned. I'd love to see the inline-6 out of my (ok, not MY, but another) K1600GT in an airplane. 160Hp and > 100 ft-lb, very compact and oh so smooth... but you'd need a PSRU and go look at how long it took Rotax to make those reliable and lightweight...
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL
Even an F1 race car only has a load factor of about 50-60% WOT for a course and wot time is limited to a 15-20 second burst. An airplane is typically wot from takeoff to descent. Short hops at partial throttle not withstanding.
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So, Spa is the next race on the calendar, and IIRC, its >70% WOT there and if you don't lift through Eau Rouge, its about 40 sec WOT up the Kemmel (its "easier" to stay WOT through eau rouge in the V8 era as opposed to the 1000Hp V10s, as if anything about that corner was easy). Back before the detuned engines, when the V10s hit 20,000 RPM, Spa was always good for some on-track engine destruction. Ka-Blammo!
TODR
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Doug "The Other Doug Reeves" Reeves
CTSW N621CT - SOLD but not forgotten
Home Bases LBX, BZN
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08-06-2013, 09:01 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eagle, Id
Posts: 102
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Do it!
Who wouldn't want to witness an R-1 powered, gear driven RV launch turning 13,000 rpm's?
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Steve Hamer
RV-6
Eagle, ID
Last edited by shamer : 08-07-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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08-06-2013, 09:27 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamer
Who wouldn't want to witness an R-1 powered, gear driven RV launch turning 13,000 rpm's.
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True! 
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08-06-2013, 09:46 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Western US
Posts: 98
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The sound of the engine with the new cross plane crank is amazing. It doesn't sound like any inline 4 ever made. It actually sounds more like a v-twin engine. I would love to hear one flying overhead!
http://youtu.be/z5Qdg_QRAIA?t=1m50s
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08-06-2013, 11:29 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Deforest, WI
Posts: 17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamer
Who wouldn't want to witness an R-1 powered, gear driven RV launch turning 13,000 rpm's.
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I guess that kind of interested me as well. In my younger years I bought a 2002 r1 brand new, love the sound of the engine and deep tone of the 998cc engine at high rpms. Used to give me goose bumps.
Oh well, thanks for all the discussion guys, it was interesting to hear thoughts on the matter. I know the engines can take a beating on land, but didnt think about the different experience the engine would have in the air.
I'm no engineer, I have just worked on quite a few R1s over the years and just wondered why I hadn't seen more cycle engines in experimentals - now I know!
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08-07-2013, 10:43 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Taylor Texas
Posts: 811
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weak link
It's not the engine - it's the PSRU. Start there, and then look for an engine that will provide the power/torque required.
Seems that Geared Drives had broken the code in terms of vibration by simply adding the clutch springs back into the drive system. The accident stopped all that R&D....as far as I know, the engine/drive system was not at fault?
Carry on!
Mark
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