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POSTING RULES

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08-05-2013, 04:36 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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You know that Van's does at least three forums a year at Oshkosh aimed exclusively at people interested in building an RV, right?
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08-05-2013, 04:57 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 42
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You must be joking...
Some of you guys are just plain nuts. The guy was just offering constructive criticism. In my business, I welcome genuine advice. The bulk of the responses belittled the guy, and now the moderator told him to take a hike. Unbelievable.
Nice job. Way to go. Keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
__________________
Tom F.
8TN4
RV-3 Project
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08-05-2013, 05:05 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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I think part of having discussions like this in a rather anonymous forum is that much intent, emotion or syntax gets lost in the words. I can understand the OP's original questions and indeed I've seen some good suggestions on these pages. I think some of the defensiveness comes from the wording of some posts. Trying to prove who has a bigger 'wallet' will not win you a ton of friends in the RV crowd or homebuilt crowd as a whole; many who struggle just to financially make it to the show to begin with. I think as a whole nobody berates success, but they generally are offended if it's thrown at them as a taunt of sorts.
Part of the other defensiveness comes from those who personally know the folks in the Van's booth and how unbelievably hard they work. Also how much they truly and sincerely do care about their customers (both present, past and future). OSH is never a perfect representation for any of us there and comparing it to working any other traditional type of trade show is extremely difficult...I've worked many in a bunch of different fields and OSH is an entirely different animal. I can defend that portion of it because I know those folks and I know what a deeply embedded culture they have which is truly centered around customers. I know everyone tries their best, and all of us try to make all of the people happy all of the time, but the fact is that we end up only making some of the people happy all of the time....or all of the people happy some of the time!
That said, all of us in business seem to always have room to improve. I think there has been some constructive suggestions (I've been taking notes myself to maybe steal some of those ideas), and you can be absolutely 100% certain that Van's reads these posts. If they are written incorrectly and don't provide some definitive suggestions then they (like others) will likely ignore it.
In discussions like this I like to really look at both sides, because there usually is value at least in some of it. I'm guessing the OP either truly was looking for assistance in his endeavor and perhaps the communication format just didn't work out as intended....or an RV/homebuilding just isn't for him. It's hard to tell from a few typed words (perhaps poorly chosen I don't know - but I do know we've all done that).
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
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08-05-2013, 05:12 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DuBois,Il
Posts: 144
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This Thread
Nice post from Stein (as usual)..but my vote for favorite post on this topic is #76 from BillH....very well said, Mr. Bill.
__________________
Brian K. Morrow
DuBois,Il
N433BC RV-7A Flying
RV-12is EMP done, FUSE in progress!..Official Repeat Offender
"Maintain thy airspeed...Lest the earth arise and smite thee..."
Last edited by bkc3921 : 08-05-2013 at 05:13 PM.
Reason: typo
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08-05-2013, 05:12 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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I wonder if the guy has arranged a ride for his soon-to-be wife in an RV? That wasn't made clear in the original message. The gentleman's stated desire was to light a fire in his spouse for the project he wants to build.
I think he's going about doing that all wrong and there are hundreds of ways to do it better and preserve a marriage in the process.
And, yeah, I probably am nuts, but I built an RV, hardly ever went to the Van's tent at Oshkosh (my wife went and bought the VHS tape) and we'll be celebrating our 32nd year of bliss in October. So maybe the best way to get spousal support for a project is simply to ask builders who have had it.
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08-05-2013, 05:18 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 1,077
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
Sorry Chris,
Not meant offensive or derogatory at all, but a bad choice of words I guess (I failed to realize that not everyone would understand the context)...
Moe's is a nationally franchised Mex. food restaurant, where standard operating procedure is that all employees within eye sight of the front door yell "welcome to Moe's" when a customer comes in the door.
My attempt at a small amount of humor (something I should avoid I guess) was obviously lost in the passion of the subject.
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Scott, I now understand the context and intent of your comment. I apologize for taking it the wrong way. I find that there is a Moe's in Ocala, FL, 30 miles from where I live. Next time I am in Ocala I will give them a try, as I like Mexican food very much, but have never been to one of their restaurants.
Respectfully,
__________________
Chris Smith
Maule M5-180C (Sold)
RV-6 O-360 CS (Sold)
RV-4 O-360 FP (Sold)
Full-time in the other type of RV....
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08-05-2013, 05:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
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I don't think you need to take any notes, I have always been treated like a customer every year when I stop by your booth, keep up the good work..
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteinAir
I think part of having discussions like this in a rather anonymous forum is that much intent, emotion or syntax gets lost in the words. I can understand the OP's original questions and indeed I've seen some good suggestions on these pages. I think some of the defensiveness comes from the wording of some posts. Trying to prove who has a bigger 'wallet' will not win you a ton of friends in the RV crowd or homebuilt crowd as a whole; many who struggle just to financially make it to the show to begin with. I think as a whole nobody berates success, but they generally are offended if it's thrown at them as a taunt of sorts.
Part of the other defensiveness comes from those who personally know the folks in the Van's booth and how unbelievably hard they work. Also how much they truly and sincerely do care about their customers (both present, past and future). OSH is never a perfect representation for any of us there and comparing it to working any other traditional type of trade show is extremely difficult...I've worked many in a bunch of different fields and OSH is an entirely different animal. I can defend that portion of it because I know those folks and I know what a deeply embedded culture they have which is truly centered around customers. I know everyone tries their best, and all of us try to make all of the people happy all of the time, but the fact is that we end up only making some of the people happy all of the time....or all of the people happy some of the time!
That said, all of us in business seem to always have room to improve. I think there has been some constructive suggestions (I've been taking notes myself to maybe steal some of those ideas), and you can be absolutely 100% certain that Van's reads these posts. If they are written incorrectly and don't provide some definitive suggestions then they (like others) will likely ignore it.
In discussions like this I like to really look at both sides, because there usually is value at least in some of it. I'm guessing the OP either truly was looking for assistance in his endeavor and perhaps the communication format just didn't work out as intended....or an RV/homebuilding just isn't for him. It's hard to tell from a few typed words (perhaps poorly chosen I don't know - but I do know we've all done that).
Just my 2 cents as usual.
Cheers,
Stein
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08-05-2013, 06:18 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Hicks Airfield, Fort Worth,Texas
Posts: 1,728
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4
Funny, I have bought 4 RV Kits from Vans Aircraft. Starting July 1995.
When I walk through Vans tent, or Factory! no one notices me? They make eye contact, oh, him again, I know they are busy and and will be there after 5 for happy hour.
Wish I lived closer, to Vans,,, I would be a regular on their breakfast flights.
__________________
Jay Pratt VAF #2
RV Central - Builder Assistance
Paul Revere, Borrowed Horse, & Shooter
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08-05-2013, 06:37 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Wow...I go to the airport for the afternoon and come back to find the torches have been lit and the pitchforks sharpened!
Earlier today I made the following post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan
It appears the Vans "process" worked perfectly in this situation.
Duckguy, the Vans tent did you a huge favor. You and your fiance are not suited to be RV builders or members of the Vans family. You are seeking a different culture from what you would find in the RV universe.
Instead of wasting more time contemplating an RV, you are now free to turn your total attention toward aircraft, and aviation communities, that better suit your expectations.
It was nice meeting you, and best wishes for an enjoyable aviation journey regardless of where you land.
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I intended this post to provoke discussion and it did. If you disagreed with my post, that is fine and I respect your opinion. But for the few of you who misrepresented my words, I have to call a foul. This thread is not about me but I need to respond to some mischaracterizations of what I wrote.
We often think RV aircraft are built with money, skill, fancy tools, and comfy workshops. But in reality the key ingredient to them becomimg wonderful flying machines is passion. Those of us who have built RVs realize the process has to become a high priority in our lives that is supported by our family partners.
My response to Matt (duckguy) was prompted by what I saw in his post as a lack of passion, especially by his fiance, that would support the completion of an RV. Too many of us have seen what can happen when the family doesn't support a project. His comments suggested to me that they were looking at a different set of parameters for choosing the building community they might consider being a part of.
I suspect their decision had already been made when he posted (even if he didn't realize it yet!  ), and I wished them success in whatever route they chose. If Matt wishes to correct my perceptions I will eagerly accept his reply.
Contrary to what some listers have posted, I did not tell Matt and his fiance that they were not welcome in the RV community, did not tell them to take a hike, and did not say they were unsuited to build an airplane. Read carefully what I wrote, not what you think was written. Proper context also requires having read all of Matt's posts.
Over the past 15 years of visible involvement in the RV community, I have advised and encouraged a lot of folks about building and completing their projects. But I have also talked a few out of becoming RV builders when I saw they were not "suited" for the task due to family complications, personality traits, budget, or discomfort with leaving the certificated world.
As I stated in my post, I hope Matt and his fiance find what they are seeking. It may eventually turn out to be an RV but based on what I read in his post, I still think they need to continue to research their options. We all want them to be successful builders or owners of their personal aircraft regardless of the brand.
Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 08-05-2013 at 07:01 PM.
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08-05-2013, 06:54 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Winder Ga
Posts: 914
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And your'e the one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie
I'll choose rock-solid engineering and honest business sense over flash and glossy literature any day. The vast majority of people that would take on such a project are naturally pragmatic and Van's 'marketing' strategy seems to suit the market well.
I sort of find it charming that in spite of Van's Aircraft relatively huge success they haven't changed their core principles.
Plus, why would Van change a darn thing about his business approach? He's the market leader by a long shot.
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To blame for me building my 7, and I would not trade the time I owned her for anything,
Thanks Jamie
__________________
Jerry Fischer KW4F
VAF# 1646
USS Randolph CVS-15 V-6 Div. AT2
RV7 N364SJ Miss Sandy sold 
RV1 N1583 "Mockingbird 1" SOLD
EAA volunteer SNF
HBC volunteer/co-chairman OSH
Tech counselor
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