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07-28-2013, 02:07 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
Because its construction was not done under the quality control process's in place to build an S-LSA airplane, it must be certificated as an E-LSA, but Van's as the manufacturer signifying it is a copy of the previously certificated S-LSA.
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Subtle difference then if I understand it correctly. So Vans name on the data plate simply confirms that the remote manufactured E-LSA is a true copy of the factory original, but does not make Van's`the builder' in the normal sense (ie. unlike an S-LSA)? Of course that assurance has to be taken on trust, backed by the actual builder's declaration that what he put together does conform strictly to the plans.
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rgmwa
RV-12LR 912ULS
120346
Last edited by rgmwa : 07-28-2013 at 05:55 AM.
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07-28-2013, 07:11 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, TX (DFW)
Posts: 1,164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmwa
Subtle difference then if I understand it correctly. So Vans name on the data plate simply confirms that the remote manufactured E-LSA is a true copy of the factory original, but does not make Van's`the builder' in the normal sense (ie. unlike an S-LSA)? Of course that assurance has to be taken on trust, backed by the actual builder's declaration that what he put together does conform strictly to the plans.
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That's my understanding of it, Robert. That, and the DAR being familiar enough with the design to also verify conformity.
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Gary Robertson
Arlington, TX
RV-12 Built / Sold / Flying
Currently Flying: Cessna Skyhawk 172
Rebuilding a true barn find J-3 Cub
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07-28-2013, 04:09 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txaviator
That's my understanding of it, Robert. That, and the DAR being familiar enough with the design to also verify conformity.
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Still, it's an odd situation isn't it. Once the DAR has signed off, away you go and make whatever alterations you like (presumably documented somewhere), yet somehow it still remains the E-LSA that Vans said it once was. And indeed it can be sold on as such with all the attendant E-LSA privileges for the new owner, even though it may have evolved well away from its S-SLA ancestor. I can't imagine that Vans is altogether comfortable with this arrangement. It would make more sense if the E-LSA builder wasn't allowed to make any subsequent unauthorised changes. At least then there would be a logical separation between E-LSA and EAB instead of the fuzzy boundaries that exist now. You guys in the US have some funny rules. 
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rgmwa
RV-12LR 912ULS
120346
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07-28-2013, 04:43 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Nobody ever said that FAA regulations have to make sense!
This crazy rule is why some manufacturers don't offer an ELSA kit.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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07-28-2013, 04:56 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 775
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Rob
Having said that, we in Australia seem to have the world champion bureaucracy at making silly rules (I have been dealing with our aviation bureaucracy recently and am getting a headache from banging my head on a wall).
I guess from here in Australia I wish the FAA were in Australia.
John
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07-28-2013, 05:08 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 316
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John,
Many of us probably also wish the FAA were down under!! 
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John Horn (donated for 2020)
Independence, OR
LSRM-A, CFII
Rotax Service, Maintenance, and Heavy Maintenance Trained
Building an RV-12, N7878H reserved
Flying a Flight Design CTSW
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07-28-2013, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
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John, maybe we could arrange a swap. I'm sure the aviation community downunder would support moving CASA offshore. If the FAA didn't want to come, we could always ask New Zealand to take them. 
__________________
rgmwa
RV-12LR 912ULS
120346
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07-29-2013, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Madison, AL
Posts: 67
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Can a kit-built RV-12 still be a S-LSA
Thanks Guys for all of your replies. That clears it up for me.
Jim Mac
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07-30-2013, 05:02 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigvince
If Vans builds it, it is S-LSA.
If anyone else builds it, it is E-LSA or E-AB.
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I thought that the RV-12s currently sold as S-LSAs were built by an outfit named Synergy Air, not VANs?
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07-30-2013, 08:15 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog
I thought that the RV-12s currently sold as S-LSAs were built by an outfit named Synergy Air, not VANs?
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Van's manages and oversees all the quality control processes, and then completes all of the final inspection and assembly prep for delivery.
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Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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