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  #1  
Old 07-27-2013, 09:42 AM
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randylervold randylervold is offline
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Default OSH Fiske arrival question

I'm flying our company Bonanza to OSH and have a question for you OSH vets. This B36TC doesn't like to fly at 90 kts so I'll take the 2,300' 135 kt route like I did last year, but here's the question: at what point do you descend to 1,800' pattern altitude? I've scoured the NOTAM and can't find anything. Descending into traffic with a low wing aircraft concerns me which is why I'm asking.
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2013, 10:43 AM
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I don't know the answer but I would guess when they split you off for 1 runway or the other.
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2013, 12:11 PM
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This issue has been discussed every year. Scott Card summed it up well earlier this month. "We do have this conversation each year don't we. I have the usual notam right here in front of me. Also, as usual, it is very clear that it doesn't matter what MY "preference" is. It says: Do THIS, "if unable", do THAT. Now, if we decide to ignore the details fo the notam, that is indeed your choice". Scott is being polite, remember that a NOTAM has regulatory power if someone wants to take you to task.

Bluntly, if you are "unable" to fly a Bonanza at Vso +30 for a few miles you might want to get some instruction. By the way, my Baron didn't mind flying at 90 kts.

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  #4  
Old 07-27-2013, 02:31 PM
Frank Smidler Frank Smidler is offline
 
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Default At Fisk

At fisk the will give you your runway assignment and have you descend to 1800. You still have to integrate into the lower traffic.
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Clark View Post

Bluntly, if you are "unable" to fly a Bonanza at Vso +30 for a few miles you might want to get some instruction. By the way, my Baron didn't mind flying at 90 kts.

John Clark ATP, CFI
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John, you might want to rethink that a little. While a Baron can fly at 90 knots, IMHO it's neither reasonable nor safe, especially at low altitude, in a situation where your attention should be outside the airplane. All my Baron time is in a B55, but as I recall 90 knots is at least 20 knots below the blueline, and even below Vmc and Vsse. It is around 1.2 Vso.

An engine failure at that speed and altitude would put you and your passengers in a world of hurt, and there is no reason to expose yourself to that risk.

Randy's question is reasonable, and I think operating a bonanza in the high pattern meets the spirit and letter of the notam. It is safer at 135 knots in an airplane that is easier to fly at that speed and can easily mix with the other "high" traffic.

Most of us could land an RV in a 20 knot direct crosswind, but that doesn't mean we should if there's a better runway available.
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randylervold View Post
I'm flying our company Bonanza to OSH and have a question for you OSH vets. This B36TC doesn't like to fly at 90 kts so I'll take the 2,300' 135 kt route like I did last year, but here's the question: at what point do you descend to 1,800' pattern altitude? I've scoured the NOTAM and can't find anything. Descending into traffic with a low wing aircraft concerns me which is why I'm asking.
I was watching the aircraft landing Oshkosh RW27 today, the controller would tell the higher and faster traffic (several twin Cessna) "join the downwind and descend to pattern altitude, follow the low wing ahead"
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2013, 04:12 PM
sjhurlbut sjhurlbut is offline
 
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Default Not my understanding

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Smidler View Post
At fisk the will give you your runway assignment and have you descend to 1800. You still have to integrate into the lower traffic.
This does not match my experience flying in Oshkosh. They want all aircraft at the same altitude before to initially get to Ripon. Very dangerous arriving there higher and then descending.

My plan this year is a minimum of 10nm from Ripon to be at altitude and head on a swivel. If your higher than everybody, they will be very hard to see.
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2013, 05:05 PM
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Default Bonanza at 90 Kts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by flyeyes View Post
John, you might want to rethink that a little. While a Baron can fly at 90 knots, IMHO it's neither reasonable nor safe, especially at low altitude, in a situation where your attention should be outside the airplane. All my Baron time is in a B55, but as I recall 90 knots is at least 20 knots below the blueline, and even below Vmc and Vsse. It is around 1.2 Vso.

An engine failure at that speed and altitude would put you and your passengers in a world of hurt, and there is no reason to expose yourself to that risk.

Randy's question is reasonable, and I think operating a bonanza in the high pattern meets the spirit and letter of the notam. It is safer at 135 knots in an airplane that is easier to fly at that speed and can easily mix with the other "high" traffic.

Most of us could land an RV in a 20 knot direct crosswind, but that doesn't mean we should if there's a better runway available.
I'm wondering what it is about the B36TC that doesn't like 90 kts? While I've never flown a B36TC, I do have a fair amount of time in an A36, and 90 kts is a piece of cake. In fact, the BO handles pretty well at 70 kts IAS, clean. The B36TC is a little heavier, but it also has longer wings thus I wouldn't think 90 would be a problem.

Regarding the B55, I believe Vmc is around 80 kts, and Vsse is around 86 kts.

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Last edited by skylor : 07-27-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2013, 05:09 PM
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A Bonanza of some flavor flew on my right wing from Ripon to Fiske last year. Guy was close! The controllers were yelling at him to fall in line over the tracks but he was clueless.

Yep, they will fly @ 90kts or at least that one did.
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2013, 05:11 PM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpansier View Post
I was watching the aircraft landing Oshkosh RW27 today, the controller would tell the higher and faster traffic (several twin Cessna) "join the downwind and descend to pattern altitude, follow the low wing ahead"
Don,

From the looks of things, I will have a pretty stiff crosswind at arrival tomorrow. Please don't watch my landing!
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