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  #1  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:02 PM
tegwilym tegwilym is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 81
Question HS-710 / 714 countersunk rivets. HOW?

I messed up the four counter sunk rivets in the middle of the HS-710 and 714 spar. I was riveting just fine, then forgot that I needed countersunk in those two holes. Fortunately, I just had two rivets to remove. Cleaned up that mess and tried again with the correct ones now.

This time all 4 of them bent over! I was using the rivet gun on the shop side, while holding the buck bar on the countersunk side. What the heck am I doing wrong? All 4 were messed up so I had to remove them all. Now I've spent the last hour reading builder sites to see if anyone has the same problem. No.

Here is what they look like -


And the other side:


The holes did get very slightly bigger during removal, but I think they will fill in once I mash the rivet down again. As long as I don't mess up again and have to remove them on e more time. So any adivce on these things? I'm only about 25 rivets into this project and have already removed about 6, my good rivet ratio sucks so far! I do have a pnuematic squeezer also, but not sure if it fits nicely around that flange. I'll have to test fit that.

The 4-6 rivet seems to be the correct lenght according to the gauge too.

Any ideas for a RV7 riveting newb?

Thanks.

Tom
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  #2  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:19 PM
DaleB's Avatar
DaleB DaleB is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Omaha, NE (KMLE)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tegwilym View Post
This time all 4 of them bent over! I was using the rivet gun on the shop side, while holding the buck bar on the countersunk side.
I think you just answered your own question. I fold over a lot of rivet heads when I try doing that. I have learned to always keep the bucking bar on the shop head side, if at all possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tegwilym View Post
The holes did get very slightly bigger during removal, but I think they will fill in once I mash the rivet down again. As long as I don't mess up again and have to remove them on e more time. So any adivce on these things? I'm only about 25 rivets into this project and have already removed about 6, my good rivet ratio sucks so far! I do have a pnuematic squeezer also, but not sure if it fits nicely around that flange. I'll have to test fit that.
Hang in there, it gets better as you gain experience. Sometimes too slowly to save you, but it's almost always fixable. You'll also get better at drilling them out. I haven't had to use an "oops rivet" in a while now. Oh, and... word of advice... that pneumatic squeezer is really handy, but it will also let you make bigger mistakes, faster.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #3  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:53 PM
tegwilym tegwilym is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 81
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Hmmm... So I just need to reverse my methods?
Hammer the countersink and buck the shop side instead? I did that way with the round head rivets on the rest of the HS-710/714 spars. It all went very well. I guess I'll give that a try - after a test run on my Boeing scrap piece!
Thanks for the reply! Lately this is my favorite web site. :-)

Tom
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  #4  
Old 07-24-2013, 08:59 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default bucking bar

I check to see if I can use the squeezer every time.
If not then I go for the titanium bucking bar.
if that is won't fit I start cussing.
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Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
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  #5  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:01 PM
tegwilym tegwilym is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
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We have some good, fancy tungsten bars.
I've cussed at some point in every part of this project. By the time I'm done though, I'll be a expert plane builder...or a sailor!
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  #6  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:24 PM
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wjb wjb is offline
 
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Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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+1 for the tungsten bucking bar .. It fits easily in all sorts of places, ESP when you are putting on the HS skins. A squeezer works great here. I love my alligator (hence my avatar).

Before I knew about oops rivets, I messed up one of the HS skin rivets so bad multiple times that I just put a 4 in and drove it home. Hardly can tell now!
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:24 PM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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I count my tungsten bar as one of the very best tool purchases I've made. I use it ALL the time. I had to use the steel one today to get at some stuff I just couldn't reach with the little tungsten bar, and it was the first time in a couple of months I'd taken it out of the case.

When I riveted the top skins on the left wing, I had my son on the outside with the bar, and I was on the inside with a double-offset back riveting set. The flush heads on the outside look great. The shop heads... well... the airplane will fly, but it's not my finest work, let's put it that way. We're doing the right wing now; I showed my wife how to use the rivet gun and I'm on the inside with the tungsten bar. Much better. I got a big mushroom set with the rubber ring, and both ends of the rivets are coming out great.
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Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)

Last edited by DaleB : 07-24-2013 at 10:27 PM.
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2013, 10:54 PM
tegwilym tegwilym is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 81
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Yep. We also have the red rubber mushroom attachment also. I think that is the one I'll try now and hopefully get through my latest dilemma - or should I say "learning experience!"
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2013, 11:30 PM
tegwilym tegwilym is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 81
Exclamation

UPDATE: I just tried it with the tungten and the shop side and the riveter with the red rubber mushroom over the riveting tape and the factory end. Worked ---- Perfectly!

Got the heads mushed down just past the gauge radius, and just slightly higher than the cutout. Perfect fit and it's not smeared over the side like I did before.

THANK YOU!!!!!
I owe you guys a beer, latte, bottle of wine or a ride in the plane in 2 years.

One more quick question: how hard do you need to push the bucking bar while riveting the other side? I may be pushing it too hard, but then it's a massive little thing so maybe I don't need that much pressure.

Thank again!

Tom
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  #10  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:58 AM
OLDSAM OLDSAM is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tucker GA
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Tom,
You want to keep enough pressure on the bucking bar so that it doesn't bounce off and on the rivet. You don't want the gun hitting the rivet head while the bar is not in contact on the shop end, if you do the gun is driving the skin/structure instead of the rivet. Like everyone else, I love the tungsten bar as well, I have it doubly good because I am using my friend Steve's bar while he works on his canopy, so didn't have to shell out the big bucks (yet).
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