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06-05-2013, 10:28 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aptos, CA (previously Reno, 21 years!)
Posts: 247
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Thank you Mark.
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06-05-2013, 06:49 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Just an observation:
We're discouraged from speculating on accidents here, before the TSB/NTSB has a chance to review it and make determinations. And I do understand why that's the rule. But in this case, we've waited for the NTSB to make a report, and received something that was rather sparse... On its own it was not very useful with respect to the interests of increasing safety.
What has happened since is that readers here have dug deeper into the data, posting it here for us all to review and, yes, *speculate* on. This has happened in a well-mannered fashion, and I think some people may have learned something from it.
I'm not sure that this speculation couldn't proceed in a similar fashion *before* we have an NTSB report, provided the speculation is based on factual sources and not media hype. But that would be up to our fearless leader to allow... 
__________________
Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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06-11-2013, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 2
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Aerobatics
+1 on Mark's post. I only have 200 hours or so in competition acro but I never encountered an RV in a contest. In addition to egress practice, actual skydiving training (static line is best), I would add a spin endorsement before flying any acro in your RV. Spin training in a Pitts may be expensive but it may save your life.
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06-11-2013, 09:47 PM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,420
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Welcome to VAF!
Gary, welcome aboard the good ship VAF 
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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06-12-2013, 05:24 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cumming, Georgia
Posts: 873
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Don
I was at Don's house about 2 weeks before the accident, he had just completed his new panel, and was getting ready to install it. Don lived about 4 miles from me and I was interested in going over to Stoney Point and seeing his aircraft but it never happened. This had to be the new panel installed New AFIS.
One thing that puzzles me if your familiar with the flight path, is that he was at such a slow airspeed over the lake (not even gliding speed for a 7)for a couple minutes prior to the crash. Pretty much his gliding path would tend to make you believe that he was possibly showing the passenger the gliding capability, he still had all engine readings so as not to indicate a failure
I'll throw this in just for thought.. Is it possible looking at the fuel flow that he had an interruption in fuel flow? All the engine data suggest a lack of power just 2 minutes prior to the accident resulting in such a slow airspeed over the lake and a pretty constant descend but the again it appears that he got it back.
A friend of mine an A&P was on his way home when the accident happened in front of him and he stated there was no fire and did not see any evidence of fuel leakage.
Prop damage was consistent with an engine not developing power.
Could have as suggested the passenger panicked, it has happened to me as an instructor twice in 3900 hours of instructing.
Like some accidents we may never know. But like most I too read these reports even after 15,000 hours of flying so that I can continue to Learn.
I thank all of you for bringing more information to light..
Smilin' Jack
__________________
Smilin' Jack & Anita Hunt
N507H RV7, KJZP Jasper, GA
EAA690
APRS/ WB4JKY
Retired Corporate Pilot CFI-AI, MEL
CE500, LRJT, HS25, C650, SBJT, CL60
Hunt Aviation, LLC.
Pilot Service, IPC's Biennials.
Comm Glider
Last edited by Smilin' Jack : 06-12-2013 at 05:33 AM.
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06-12-2013, 06:25 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN.
Posts: 4,792
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How do you find the backup data off the NTSB query page?
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06-12-2013, 09:15 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LettersFromFlyoverCountry
How do you find the backup data off the NTSB query page?
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As with many things, it's a little convoluted. You first go to the regular NTSB page and get the specific accident report, then copy the NTSB ID from it. Then you go to a different page here:
http://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/
Enter the correct information and you'll get a list of all the public data for the report. Sometimes you can get more, but it takes a bit of paperwork (like an FOIA, or being a "party" to the investigation).
Anyway, hope that helps. It's a little sad that I'm versed in this.....
Cheers,
Stein
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06-22-2013, 08:52 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smilin' Jack
I was at Don's house about 2 weeks before the accident, he had just completed his new panel, and was getting ready to install it. Don lived about 4 miles from me and I was interested in going over to Stoney Point and seeing his aircraft but it never happened. This had to be the new panel installed New AFIS.
One thing that puzzles me if your familiar with the flight path, is that he was at such a slow airspeed over the lake (not even gliding speed for a 7)for a couple minutes prior to the crash. Pretty much his gliding path would tend to make you believe that he was possibly showing the passenger the gliding capability, he still had all engine readings so as not to indicate a failure
I'll throw this in just for thought.. Is it possible looking at the fuel flow that he had an interruption in fuel flow? All the engine data suggest a lack of power just 2 minutes prior to the accident resulting in such a slow airspeed over the lake and a pretty constant descend but the again it appears that he got it back.
A friend of mine an A&P was on his way home when the accident happened in front of him and he stated there was no fire and did not see any evidence of fuel leakage.
Prop damage was consistent with an engine not developing power.
Could have as suggested the passenger panicked, it has happened to me as an instructor twice in 3900 hours of instructing.
Like some accidents we may never know. But like most I too read these reports even after 15,000 hours of flying so that I can continue to Learn.
I thank all of you for bringing more information to light..
Smilin' Jack
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I see it has been brought up twice about the passenger panicking, does anyone know if the passenger was a pilot, a new person that had never flown etcetc... and here is something I haven't heard mentioned,, anyone thought of a possible medical emergency(heartattack) to the pilot, power could have been left set from pilots last movement, pilot went out, passenger panicking trying to wake up pilot(would explain long low power altitude drop) passenger trys to take control with no experience and stalls and no recovery,, I know its a forfetched thought, but it has happened several times over the years.
Last edited by jongurley : 06-23-2013 at 02:39 AM.
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06-23-2013, 12:51 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aptos, CA (previously Reno, 21 years!)
Posts: 247
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I thought about the pilot incapacitation event myself... Usually in an exhaustive accident investigation there is a section dedicated to the aeromedical / flight physiology factors and autopsy information. Sometimes it is possible to know and other times it is not. In a non commercial investigation the exhaustive investigation and research work is just not done.
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06-23-2013, 04:53 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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No one knows
Some accidents never have been resolved and there are many avenues of conjecture.
Methinks that this one falls in that category.
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
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