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06-06-2013, 12:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 215
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Test procedure/schematic for single Pmag
Hello all,
I'm working on my electrical system, specifically control of the ignition sys. I'm going to run a single bendix and a Pmag, and would eventually migrate to two Pmags. I've come up with the following schematic for how I intend on controlling the mags, and enabling a push-button start switch. I searched the archives, but could not find anything similar. I'd appreciate feedback from anyone who has done something similar.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/ignitionq.png/
Based on this schematic, here is my procedure for starting, mag checks and shutdown;
START;
PMag: On
LMag :On, momentarily hold up to start position to enable starter
Start Button: Push
MAG CHECK:
Lt Mag: Off (slight drop in RPM)
PMag: Test (No drop)
Shut Down:
Pmag: Off (slight drop in RPM)
Mixture:Cut off
Lt Mag: Off
Again, feedback appreciated. Feel free to use if you find it useful.
David
__________________
David Dalton
Longmont, CO
RV-7 Complete,
Flies like a dream!
Lifetime VAF Member
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06-06-2013, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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I understand that there are a few valid reasons for going away from a standard keyed switch (cost and reliability among them), but they work just fine controling two pmags or a split system like you propose. Also, why do you intend to shut off the Pmag before you pull the mixture?
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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06-06-2013, 01:38 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 4,435
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Perhaps also check the Pmag power by shutting off its power from the ship and force it to demonstrate its ability to self-generate its own power.
Caveat - that's if I understand how it works.... I'm not a Pmag expert.
Dave
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06-06-2013, 03:26 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Geneva, AL
Posts: 491
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PDF
Dave,
You really don't need the push button start switch as you have it. If the conventional mag switch has a momentary up position that will activate the starter. If you have the desire to put the second P-mag in the starter button will be really useful and you will still have the ability to check the self powering of the P-mags. I'm in the process of putting in another P-mag and will add the push button to start.
__________________
Paul Rose
RV-9A 91300
N417PR
SERFI 2013 Awards
Inspection Complete!!! 7/7/12
First Flight 7/22/12
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06-06-2013, 09:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
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FYI - The 114 series P-mags work different than the old 113's. If you are above around 800 RPM the 114's are self powering. Thus, if you cut the power to them you aren't really testing anything because they have already dropped ship's power.
Below that number, say for starting, they are running off of ship's power, so you just tested that by starting the engine.
For this reason, I would still the mag check just to make sure everything is good but I'm not sure you need to pull the power on them.
FWIW, even with the EICommander telling me all good with my dual P-mags, I still run a power test because I did it with the 113's and continue to do so with the 114's.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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06-07-2013, 06:05 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N941WR
Thus, if you cut the power to them you aren't really testing anything because they have already dropped ship's power.
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But you are testing the built in alternator. If it is bad and you remove ship's power, the engine will die as long as the other ignition is turned off.
If ships power is never removed, there is no way to tell if the internal alternator is working or not.
Last edited by Brantel : 06-07-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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06-07-2013, 06:53 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Geneva, AL
Posts: 491
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I have to agree with Brian on this one. I just think it's a good idea whether it's a 113 or 114 to check the internal alternator to confirm that it's still working. Never had an ounce of trouble with the 113 that I have and don't expect any when I add the 114.
__________________
Paul Rose
RV-9A 91300
N417PR
SERFI 2013 Awards
Inspection Complete!!! 7/7/12
First Flight 7/22/12
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06-07-2013, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 215
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Clarification
I guess I should have clarified a few items in my original post...
I don't want the weight of a keyed switch, and feel it adds no add'l functionality or security. Honestly, I like the 'coolness' factor of a bush button switch that I designed myself, as long as I can do that reliably (hence this post).
I know I don't need the push button switch, as I have it designed, but this way it takes two deliberate actions to enable the starter, so I should not inadvertent activations. This push button has a built in LED, which i hope to use as a starter engaged annuciator to indicate whether it's engaged or not. PaulR brings up a good point, that my present methodology would not work with dual PMags, as my present start position for the second switch would be for the test position of the second mag. I suppose I could just start on a single mag, or make it so either PMags would enable the starter, which would still require starting on a single PMag, which should not be a problem.
The TESt function of the PMag simply disables the internal alternator. Doing this during the run-up should not cause any drop in power, as the internal alternator should be powering the PMag, and the Bendix should still be operating. If I get a drop in power when running this test, it means the PMag jphas dropped off line, and I'm running solely on the Bendix.
I plan to turn it off before shut down, to test running on the Bendix alone. Actually, I'll probably ground the Bendix briefly first to ensure that it's P-lead is functional, reapply power to it, and then turn off the PMag to ensure that it can be powered down and the Bendix can carry the load.
I think this covers all the questions I received thus far, thanks for your feedback to date, anything else?
David
__________________
David Dalton
Longmont, CO
RV-7 Complete,
Flies like a dream!
Lifetime VAF Member
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06-07-2013, 10:17 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer30?
...I don't want the weight of a keyed switch, and feel it adds no add'l functionality or security. Honestly, I like the 'coolness' factor of a bush button switch that I designed myself, as long as I can do that reliably (hence this post)...
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OK, that's valid.... There seems to be a number of people who feel they really NEED something other than the standard keyed switch for PMags - just wanted to be clear that that is not the case.
And FWIW, after hundreds of hours flying behind PMags, I rarely check the "alternator function"... This test is reserved for condition inspections and oil change intervals in my world. One thing that HAS been added to the daily check is the LOP, cruise power "mag check". This has shown me a lot more than any end of runway, 1800 RPM checks ever has.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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06-07-2013, 01:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Longmont, CO
Posts: 215
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What is the LOP mag check
Mike,
I'm not familiar with the cruise power LOP mag check. Can you elaborate?
Thanks,
David
__________________
David Dalton
Longmont, CO
RV-7 Complete,
Flies like a dream!
Lifetime VAF Member
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