IPAD for use as PFD

[Doug]

Originally Posted by AirbusPilot

I would love to have some kind of RS-232 to Bluetooth interface between my Dynons and my Ipad so I could have flight and engine information on the back seat of my 8 using the Ipad

This is an RS232 to Bluetooth interface device:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...oducts_id=8495

All you need then is software to display the graphic information - seems there are many developers around who could come up with a suitable iPad app.

Alternatively an open source EFIS application runnning on a Laptop PC could pick up the Bluetooth data.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/diy-efis/
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=24035


Doug Gray

[instructor_bill]

Denny-- here's your can of worms.

http://i-hud.com/

[Snowflake]

I have iHUD on my iPHone, have since it was first announced. It's pretty cool, but is limited... It derives EFIS info from G-sensors, so it can't tell the difference between a coordinated turn and straight and level flight.

At least, not yet. The iPhone4 has solid state gyros in it in addition to G-sensors, which means a proper EFIS display is possible. They're working updating the software now.

Would I use it as a PFD? Probably not. Is it darn cool to have velcroed to my dash as a backup? Darn right.

[southtarnation]

Originally Posted by Doug

This is an RS232 to Bluetooth interface device:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/pro...oducts_id=8495

All you need then is software to display the graphic information - seems there are many developers around who could come up with a suitable iPad app.

Alternatively an open source EFIS application runnning on a Laptop PC could pick up the Bluetooth data.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/diy-efis/
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=24035


Doug Gray

Under the suggestion section of the dynon forums; add your request under mine and lets show them its something we want!

[SMRacer]

This is a day/night VFR RV-4. The display is powered by a Sagetech Clarity SV giving me GPS/ADSb, and AHRS. I am using a 3M glare shield I purchased from Sporty's that does a very nice job. I have yet to have any overheat problems. I use both Foreflight and WingX. The MGL EFIS provides engine parameters plus it can provide attitude/heading information using GPS information only. (I don't have the MGL AHRS) Would I fly IFR with this setup? Only in an emergency.

Jim

[Sky.bonobo]

I like the thread. I had deleted my post that started the two above; sorry for the mix up, but I thought I'd mention it in case Jim's seemed really out of the blue. The idea has always interested me, but I haven't taken the plunge yet. Also, I got a free I Pad a while back (well, my wife did as a work perk... but what is hers is ours, right?), so my cost analysis is a little different (if I Pads can work, then I already have the screen part). I am sure I am not the only one in this boat of "I already have an I Pad" so the I Pad to aircraft EFIS screen cost comparison is moot.

I hear a lot of bashing without any facts, such as "they aren't designed for airplanes." That doesn't help. This forum at least has some actual quantified/qualified comments, such as "it overheats when the sun hits it." To me, "They aren't designed for airplanes" sounds like the best thing I've heard (oh wait, is this going in an airplane?? Then just figure on tripling whatever you were quoted previously. What's that? Oh no, it is exactly the same product). I was just reading an article about the I Pad and it seems the aviation community is starting to conform to the generalization that I Pads are an awesome tool for planning and carrying E-charts only, and considering using one for anything else is ridiculous (except maybe using it as a "gee whiz" backup-only GPS function).

Since it has been 2.5 years since the last comment and I have no experience with this yet am very curious, I would be curious to see some up-to-date commentary. I have not tracked all the different I Pad versions and their release dates, but I know they keep coming out with new versions (2, 3, etc.), and I didn't see anyone referencing what version (maybe they were all "1's?"). I was wondering if anyone found solutions to the overheating problem (crafty EAA'ers, Apple engineers, or both). By the way, that is an important fact (overheating) and I am very glad folks are bringing it up; I disagree with the comment/tantrum accusing this fact sharing of being product bashing? I think he missed the boat of us working together to teach each other things that work and don?t for us.

One of the consistent comments I keep finding on why only a fool would use an I Pad as a PFD is that it is not designed with reliability (GPS/gyro). My thought for PFD was to use an AHRS product with as much reliability as anything else, and use the screen to display it. To me, it seems like a great screen with a built-in 10-hour battery backup to include an integrated set of redundant (less "reliable") back-up GPS and (limited) flight instruments. One of the last comments indicated IPhones perhaps putting in solid state gyros along with G meters; does anyone know if the latest I Pads are doing such things? Obviously if the screen is overheating and shutting off, then it isn't worth a thing, but otherwise, the price you pay for all that is ridiculously cheaper than any screen (let alone touchscreen) that I have seen designed for aircraft. At first, I thought I was wrong, and that after adding the ADAHRS equipment to the I Pad cost, you weren't saving all that much, but then I noticed most of the prices listed for PFD's also did not include any of the hardware, to include the ADAHRS they absolutely require. To summarize, these I Pad options seem much more affordable. If they work just as well for less (not counting that they can do so many other things, like give the wife a movie to watch on the secondary screen when you don't need it... not that we are trying to silence our spouses), why not?

Instructor Bill linked
http://i-hud.com/

I found
http://www.aviation.levil.com/AHRS_mini.htm

Has anyone used either? If so, can we hear about it? Any others out there I haven't found yet? Reports?

Also, I'm having a hard time getting recommendations/reports on anti-glare screen covers, with some saying it is horrendous and others (in low wing a/c, I see) are saying it isn?t' a problem. I am not sure what is creating that disparity, but comments would be great.

The other thing I read about is folks saying they don't want to put the drain on their alternator/generator. If set up to charge/operate off the aircraft electric system, does anyone know how these draw the watts compared to aviation specific screens? No one ever says the I Pad draws ___ Watts, while the _____ EFIS draws a third that. Just curious to see some actual useful information there on a topic that I can only find what I have to assume as opinions of unknown reliability since they are entirely unquantified. Myths can be terribly counterproductive yet simply avoided by supplying supporting facts? I suppose I might be able to find that information out, but I?m definitely not an electrician and if someone else has invented that wheel and can just paste their research, I could really appreciate that.

Sorry for the long post. I aim to promote more conversation about using the I Pad not only as a gee whiz not-completely-trusted EFIS, but as the PFD. Specifically, anything regarding newer versions not having overheating problems (or common measures that are working to prevent it), I Pad compatible AHRS/ADAHRS units, glare, and any other tips that would help all of us looking at "glass" options. Much obliged for your time and tips!

p.s. Thanks for the response, Jim! That looks great! I'm glad to hear about the 3M shield working and that you aren't having overheating issues. Do you know what model I Pad that is by any chance?

[Snowflake]

I'm slowly redesigning my panel to incorporate a tablet-based PFD. I currently have a Dynon D10A, plus steam gauges for backup and primary engine instruments. I have a few MGL gauges for fuel, engine temps, etc. as well.

The plan will be to replace the existing panel with a modular panel that has a center radio stack, and two removable panels (one either side) that are sized large enough to accomodate something like 10" Skyviews (thinking long, long term here). Before I win the lottery and can afford such a setup, however, i'll put my Dynon and MGL gauges on the passenger side, and mount the tablet to the pilot's side. Then i'll feed the tablet from one of the Levil Technologies devices.

At least, that's the current plan, which has no schedule yet. I've modelled the panel, my radios, an iPad, and my MGL instruments in Solidworks and have been shuffling them around to see how everything fits. Once I am happy with it i'll consider having some metal cut, probably not before this fall though. By the time I do this I may have moved to an Android tablet too, we'll see.

It just seems to make more sense to me to make use of this large screen tablet that I'll carry with me anyway in the airplane, to fly. VFR only, of course.

[thilokind]

Well, I can add a true story involving an IPad used with a flight software (AirNav Pro).Last year we flew a three ship formation from Germany to Duxford, UK to spend the weekend at the Imperial War Airshow (btw: great airshow - strongly recommended in case you happen to be in the UK end of July).
Anyway, on the way back to Germany to leading airplane was flown by a couple - she was the pic; he was responsible for navigation. For that, he had planned the trip on his IPad and was using it in flight as the primary navigation tool. I was PIC in the third and last airplane of the formation. My job was easy - just follow the leader. However, because the flight was boring, my mate and co-pilot started to fiddle with the Garmin we had installed and also set the course. Over Belgium we had to squeeze through two class D airspaces, which were only 5 miles apart. We could clearly see them on the Garmin and eventually noticed to our surprise that the lead airplane started to drift to the right. Just before they entered the class D we made a radio call and told them to turn left.
When we landed in Aachen, the first airport in Germany (to clear customs) we saw the two exiting the airplane, both clearly looking fuming. After a while we got the story: the lady (pic) started to unfold the sectionals shortly before reaching the two class D airspaces. Her husband started arguing with her, basically telling her that paper sectionals are stone age and not needed, since he had the IPad. They obviously argued back and forth. Just before reaching the narrow gap between the airspaces and in the middle of their arguing the IPad simply said: "I'm too hot and shut down now - bye". With that, they immediately lost any clue about their exact position, which eventually caused the drift towards one of the airspaces. He tried everything to cool the IPad down (including opening the cockpit window and holding the IPad into the air stream), but it took a good 15 minutes for the IPad to re-start again. You can imagine what he got to hear the rest of the flight from his wife...

Lessons learned:
- IPads are great, but are not as reliable as real aviation equipment. They should not be used as their primary flight instruments.In fact, I have a Garmin installed in my Zodiac and always use this for primary navigation, but also use my IPhone for navigation, because it so much nicer than the Garmin
- NEVER argue with your wife...

Happy flying

[celstar]

Has anyone had a IPAD MINI shut down yet?

[Beer30?]

Ipads are great for sectionals, or for backup navigation, but I, personally would not use it as a Primary Flight Display, or even as an Emergency backup. First and foremost, it has no gyro or Pitot Static functionality. The AFS, Dynon, GRT, etc have all been developed with solid state gyros and take pitot static inputs, so you have a gyro based ADI and atmospheric altimeter and airspeed. The physics behind these devices is not overly complex, but they do require valid data inputs in order to generate valid outputs. As someone else mentioned, some of the available aviation apps do not know the difference between a level flight and a coordinated turn. I have flown enough to see GPS failures or non-availability, so relying on something that is purely GPS based for primary flight instruments is risky, at best.

The GPS antennas are great these days, but then how do you get the data to your Ipad? The interconnect to an Ipad is not really rugged enough to be considered aircraft grade hardware. Shutdowns, as previously discussed, are another reason to shy away from them, at least for primary navigation.

In my professional cockpit, we use the Ipad for Jepp charts and other manuals, but their use stops there.

Like others, I am looking for ways to conserve $$, but it seems that going with a Dynon D6 or other older EFIS for a PFD, would be a safer solution.

Stein wrote a good piece on this in last months SportPilot (which I happen to agree with). However, this is just another guys' opinion,

Fly safe,

David