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09-22-2011, 02:08 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 178
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Gasman,
Thank you for the valuable inputs! I hope Michel will read it too.
We are not there with our TBI installation, yet (see picture).

First trial fit of our Rotec TBI-48-4/5
__________________
Andreas Uebersax
RV-4 SN2416 in slow progress
Switzerland
VAF donation 2019/12/13
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09-22-2011, 10:52 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: London
Posts: 167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clouddancer
Michel was so kind to send me some pictures of his installation and agreed that I put them in the forum. A very neat and compact installation. Thanks alot Michel! ...perhaps somebody can comment on the high fuel consumption at full rich position?
"here,s few pics of my installation. it is on my RV4 C-GVFR. it has a 0-320-E2D with a snowline exhaust cross over. i had to make a bellcrank in order to transfer the motion lateraly as you can see. also i did manufacture a fitting to attache the regulator to the carb. it requier some homeimprovement thinking to adapt the TBI. the TBI do perfom quite well in all aspect of flight. my only concern is the fuel consumption wich is high in a full rich position. with a carburator under 5k ft i leave it ful and it suck 8.5 gal-hr at 2400 rpm but with the tbi is went up to 11 !!!!!!!. so by playing with the mixture i found a proper set where it should suck the same amount of gas. other than that i have rock the aircraft under soft aerobatic without any problem."

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I have problem with this cable.
Please check and verify it is ok.
http://www.vansairforce.net/_WWWTP/1.htm
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08-17-2012, 03:56 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 178
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Rotec TBI installation update
We are progressing slowly with the TBI installation (other work done in between). But I thought it might be worth to give an update.
We did not like the idea of the regulator just hanging on the fuel fittings therefore we made an aluminum bracket that incorporates the attachment of the mixture control as well. The bracket is made from one piece of aluminum sheet and needed some time to figure out, how it should be bent to increase stiffness and to garantuee functionality.

The regulator is placed behind the TBI, located slightly above the fuel intake level. We might add a duct for cooling air to the regulator later (for MOGAS use). The power control cable is still missing.

The attachment for the diaphragma override (primer) link is still missing. It is planned to have a simple push to action control cable. Regulator is attached to the bracket with 4 bolts. The 2 remaining bolts hold the regulator together while mounting it to the bracket

Mixture control cable running in fore and aft direction. We probably add a link between the engine case and the very aft end of the bracket for increased stiffness.
Please note that the installation on the pictures is only preliminary (loose and not secured or even some wrong bolts etc.)
__________________
Andreas Uebersax
RV-4 SN2416 in slow progress
Switzerland
VAF donation 2019/12/13
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05-25-2013, 08:43 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mount Pleasant, WI
Posts: 51
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Rotec TBI O-360 Install
Here is my installation. Hopefully it will work.
I modified Van's standard bracket for attaching cables to a carb to accommodate attaching the cables to the TBI. The aft end was cut off as it was not needed and a part of it was bent 90 degrees or so for the mixture cable attachment point. On the other side I riveted a piece of angle and used it to secure the fuel line/TBI regulator using an adel clamp. (behind the throttle cable in this image)
For Van's standard throttle quadrant cable the bracket that came on the TBI to attach the throttle cable leaves too long of a space between the anchor point and the throttle control on the TBI. I made a new bracket from 2 x 1 1/2 x 0.125 angle to move the anchor point about 2" forward. With this adjustment Van's cable fit.
To get the mixture cable to properly work the mixture lever on the TBI I made a bell crank. The bracket that is attached using the two forward studs that attach the TBI to the sump was made from Van's aileron bracket parts replacing the eyeball bearing with a shaft bearing of the same dimensions, the only difference being it uses a 1/4" bolt instead of the 3/16" bolt Van's eyeball bearing uses. It can be seen in both the picture above and the two below. The bellcrank part of the assembly was made to a shape and the hole placement was determined to end up with the appropriate amount of travel so that the mixture lever on the TBI and the cable will both have full travel. Two spacers were needed top and bottom of the bearing because of the thickness of the Van's aileron bracket to allow proper movement. I made these by enlarging the hole in a #10 washer to 1/4". The #10 washer O.D. fit the hole in the aileron bracket perfectly.
The box attached to the bottom servers two purposes. One, it puts the bottom at the same position as a carb so installation of the air box should be according to plans. The second is if this thing doesn't work all that well a carb can be installed simply by removing all this and replacing it with the standard carb. A new cable attachment bracket and air box top plate will also be needed. The box was constructed with a top plate that attaches to the TBI with the 1/4-20 bolts that need to be safetied and then the box attaches to that plate. The air box top plate was match drilled to the bottom of the box.
I hope this helps someone out there struggling with this installation as I did.
Forgot to mention that I did not choose to install a cable to activate the primer button on the TBI regulator. I installed Van's electric primer system and didn't see a need for both. Also, it seems very likely that once depressed the likely result of using that button is a puddle of fuel in the air cleaner box.
__________________
Bob Anderson, VAF #2337
RV-8 Flying!!!
Last edited by bobby : 05-25-2013 at 10:25 AM.
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05-25-2013, 01:02 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Louisville, Ga
Posts: 7,840
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Safety wire issue.
Bob, the bottom two bolts in the last picture have a loosening force applied to them. The safety wire needs to be on the opposite side of the bottom right hand bolt, in order to have a tightening force applied, and the bottom left bolt needs to have the safety wire re-routed as well.
Just wire them in pairs...the two right side bolts and the two left side bolts paired up and eliminate the bottom safety wire altogether.
Otherwise, it looks like a well thought out approach to the problem.
Best,
__________________
Pierre Smith
RV-10, 510 TT
RV6A (Sojourner) 180 HP, Catto 3 Bl (502Hrs), gone...and already missed
Air Tractor AT 502B PT 6-15 Sold
Air Tractor 402 PT-6-20 Sold
EAA Flight Advisor/CFI/Tech Counselor
Louisville, Ga
It's never skill or craftsmanship that completes airplanes, it's the will to do so,
Patrick Kenny, EAA 275132
Dues gladly paid!
Last edited by pierre smith : 05-25-2013 at 01:04 PM.
Reason: more
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05-25-2013, 03:51 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fort Vermilion AB
Posts: 8
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Rotec TBI
The only issue with them is mounting the pressure regulator.
Ray
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05-26-2013, 07:43 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mount Pleasant, WI
Posts: 51
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Safety Wire
Pierre, thanks for the comment about the safety wire. I haven't done that yet where multiple bolts (more than two) are involved.
__________________
Bob Anderson, VAF #2337
RV-8 Flying!!!
Last edited by bobby : 05-26-2013 at 07:50 PM.
Reason: Correction
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05-26-2013, 10:19 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: -
Posts: 502
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Hi Bobby,
Thanks for posting the pictures of your TBI installation. I've always thought they were neat units.
It may or may not ultimately be an issue, but I am concerned about the aluminum lines and fittings holding the regulator in place. It seems possible that vibration and fatigue could cause a crack in those fittings and a resulting large fuel leak. Using steel AN fittings and adding some sort of support structure for the regulator would do much to minimize that possibility.
No matter what you decide, I'll look forward to hearing about your results with the Rotec.
Take care,
David
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09-16-2013, 08:59 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Ellijay, Ga
Posts: 2
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Rotec lateral vs lenghtwise install
Hi Andreas:
What was your reason for choosing a lateral spray bar orientation versus lengthwise which appears to be the more common one? What have your results been so far? How is the mixture distribution when leaning, are your cylinders peaking more or less evenly?. I am about to start an installation in my RV9A and want to pick the brains of those who have already done it to see if there are lessons to be learnt.
I have read somewhere that the lateral spray bar setup yields better fuel distribution than lengthwise, but have it seen confirmed anywhere.
Regards,
Jorge T Blohm
9A0
N789BN
[quote=Clouddancer;578821]Michel was so kind to send me some pictures of his installation and agreed that I put them in the forum. A very neat and compact installation. Thanks alot Michel! ...perhaps somebody can comment on the high fuel consumption at full rich position?
"here,s few pics of my installation. it is on my RV4 C-GVFR. it has a 0-320-E2D with a snowline exhaust cross over. i had to make a bellcrank in order to transfer the motion lateraly as you can see. also i did manufacture a fitting to attache the regulator to the carb. it requier some homeimprovement thinking to adapt the TBI. the TBI do perfom quite well in all aspect of flight. my only concern is the fuel consumption wich is high in a full rich position. with a carburator under 5k ft i leave it ful and it suck 8.5 gal-hr at 2400 rpm but with the tbi is went up to 11 !!!!!!!. so by playing with the mixture i found a proper set where it should suck the same amount of gas. other than that i have rock the aircraft under soft aerobatic without any problem."]
__________________
JTB
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09-16-2013, 04:03 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 56
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FWIW, I have currently the Rotec on a Pitts, and a recent problem I had was a leaky diaphram in the regulator. This caused the engine to really stumble bad after going to full power (like on take-off). I am dealing with Rotec now about the leaky diaphram. But all this to say that I would not locate the nipple which is the air sense in the up orientation, but rather at the bottom, so that if there is any fuel or water that somehow gets into the system, it can potentially drain out through the tube to the throttle body. I note that the Swiss fellow seems to have his nipple on the regulator at the top as it is currently oriented on the plane.
I have also in the past used an Ellison, which developed the identical problem (fuel or water on the sense side of the diaphram). (which is why I knew what to look for on this Rotec). The same thing happened, the engine would virtually die, or go to just idle just about the time the aircraft was leaving the ground on takeoff. While I really like these TBIs (Ellison and Rotec), one needs to check the sense tubes periodically for any liquid in them. It can cause a problem. FWIW.....
__________________
Dave M
RV-4 finished, awaiting AW certificate
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