Can you enter a spin from a slip?

[Ignition]

I feel this video is appropriate to this discussion, although it is based around Ag Flying and Ag Aircraft, it still applies to any other plane.

If you have a spare 15 minutes, please watch it. If you don't have 15 minutes, make room for it. It is well worth the time.

http://youtu.be/xwrfEsCiltc

- Iggy.

[pierre smith]

Originally Posted by Ignition

I feel this video is appropriate to this discussion, although it is based around Ag Flying and Ag Aircraft, it still applies to any other plane.

If you have a spare 15 minutes, please watch it. If you don't have 15 minutes, make room for it. It is well worth the time.

http://youtu.be/xwrfEsCiltc

- Iggy.

I know Wayne and this is as good a demonstration, in flight, as you can get.

So yes, a cross-controlled condition can make you spin.

Thanks for posting,

Best,

[luddite42]

Originally Posted by scsmith

Disputing what Mr. Luddite said about wing drops, the dropping wing sees a BIG increase in AOA instantly. Depending on a lot of details (airfoil characteristics, wing twist, wing taper, tip shape) that dropped wing may just turn you into a spiral dive, or it may snap you into a spin. It depends a lot on the variables I mentioned above.

I'm not sure which airplanes you're referring to, but I'm talking about airplanes that are commonly spun, and for which their spin characteristics are well-known. I'm talking Cessna trainers, Cubs, Champs, Citabrias, Decathlons, RVs, Pitts, Extras, etc. The reality is that unless you have more than one control fully deflected (and held), that even a sharp wing drop is very unlikely to develop into an actual spin. I've done plenty of this stuff, and that is based on my experience, not theory. Maybe it's easier to get a wing drop spin in Lancair IV's, P-51's, T-6's, or Barons. I don't know. But I don't think there's much experience and knowledge base out there regarding spinning the more exotic types...especially the ones that are not approved for spins. My point was simply that in the commonly spun airplanes, you can drop a wing all you want during stall practice, but unless you have multiple hard control deflections continuously held, it's not likely a spin. None of what any of us say is any substitute for obtaining training and actually going out and trying it.

Originally Posted by scsmith

But certainly, get in a hard slip, and bleed the speed off agressively, and it will spin in the direction away from the slip (over the top).

Nobody has disagreed that you can snap roll an airplane out of a slip with a hard yank of the elevator. Again, in the commonly spun types, approach the "stall" slowly, and you're likely going to be bobbing along with full elevator, rudder, and aileron...without spinning.

[mv031161]

Originally Posted by mbundy

No yaw, no stall, no spin. Need both to spin.

I've done stalls in a slip. Very benign.

Stalls in a skid? No thanks

you are 110% correct and it demonstrates the lack of spin understanding. GUYS....YAW CONTROLS EVERYTHING.... I suggest each one of you to take Bill Finnegan Spin and Emergency Recovery Training. A must have for all....I spin almost every time I go flying and have used Bill for the last 6 years as part of my training. Just ask Smokie of Team Aero Dynamix (Team RV) what he thinks about the training he got from Bill 3 years ago.......you will be surprised!

[mv031161]

Originally Posted by txaviator

Great discussion fellas! As a low time guy, I am learning a lot from all of your comments. Good stuff! Keep the comments coming!

Please BE CAREFUL...as usual, Spins are highly misunderstood and most of the answers here are just plain incorrect. I fly 2 to 3 times a week inside my Aerobatic Practice Area over KLKR and every single flight involves a different spin from upright to inverted in both directions, flat and accelerated...

Not telling or trying to convince you or anyone about Spins....just suggesting to get proper Spin Training from a well known training service providers with (Aerobatic) ACFI's not just CFI's . in my previous post I recommended Bill Finnegan who is not only a Master ACFI's but also a EAA IAC Hall of Famer. (NONE BETTER FOR SPIN TRAINIG IMHO)

[mv031161]

Warren.....got your email...never got it here as a private message or as a post response....TUTIMA Air or Rich Stowell will be my first two choices...they are well known, they are IAC competitors, do this continuously in good proven aircraft....Both equally good!

Tutima Academy of Aviation Safety - Sean D. Tucker KIC - King City, CA
Chelsea Engberg. Phone: 657-888-4621Fax: 831 385-6582Email: info@tutimaacademy.comWeb: www.TutimaAcademy.com
Aircraft:
Extra 300L, Pitts S-2C, Pitts S-2B
Courses:
Tailwheel endorsement, Stall/spin recovery, Unusual attitude/upset training, Recreational aerobatics, Competition aerobatics, Pitts checkout
World class instruction staff/equipment. All instructors are SAC card holders / airshow pilots. Proven competition success. Formation and formation aerobatic training also available.

Rich Stowell Consulting SZP - Santa Paula, CA
Rich Stowell. Phone: 805-218-0161Email: rich@richstowell.comWeb: www.richstowell.com
Aircraft:
Citabria, Decathlon, Pitts S-2B, Owner-supplied aircraft
Courses:
Tailwheel endorsement, Stall/spin recovery, Unusual attitude/upset training, Recreational aerobatics, Competition aerobatics, Pitts checkout, RV aerobatics Winter location, generally October through May in California
Instructors:
Rich StowellMCFI-A

[mv031161]

I don't know why I am not getting your PM's or your post responses...

Don

here is Bill's information.

Dent-Air, Ltd. ANP - Annapolis, MD
Bill Finagin. Phone: 410-353-2622Email: wbfinagin@cs.com
Aircraft: Pitts S-2C
Courses:
Tailwheel endorsement, Stall/spin recovery, Unusual attitude/upset training, Recreational aerobatics, Competition aerobatics, Pitts checkout
Customer Designed Training.

Instructors:
Bill FinaginMCFI-A


Here is a list of all schools "listed" in IAC page.
http://www.iacusn.org/schools/index.php#state_AL_
...notice I say "Listed" not "Sponsored" In you the ATL area I see 3 CFI;s (never heard of them) I will stick to MCFI-A when choosing your spin training....

Close to you I'll recommend

Greg Koontz Aerobatics at Sky Country Lodge AL60 - Ashville, AL
Greg Koontz. Phone: 205-616-8176Fax: 205-594-4207Email: greg@gkairshows.comWeb: www.gkairshows.com
Aircraft:
New Super Decathlon, Clipped-Wing Cub, J-3 Cub, Customers Aircraft (We have experience in most types)
Courses:
Tailwheel endorsement, Stall/spin recovery, Unusual attitude/upset training, Recreational aerobatics, Competition aerobatics, RV aerobatics
: Bed & Breakfast Accomodations on our remote private airstrip. Primary & Sportsman Compitition. CFI Spin Certification. Airshow Waivers. Group Clinics at your site. BEGINNERS ARE OUR SPECIALTY. Teaching acro since 1974.
Instructors:
Greg KoontzMCFI-A, A.C.E.

[MauiLvrs]

Originally Posted by luddite42

... Again, in the commonly spun types, approach the "stall" slowly, and you're likely going to be bobbing along with full elevator, rudder, and aileron...without spinning.

Then ... Why are they soooo many spin accidents in these "commonly spun types" it they are soooo hard to spin?

[60av8tor]

Originally Posted by MauiLvrs

Then ... Why are they soooo many spin accidents in these "commonly spun types" it they are soooo hard to spin?

I have not researched the NTSB data, but I believe they would be stall, not spin - if by 'soooo many' you're refering to pattern - departure / base to final - incidents. The above video is really good - airspeed is, in fact, life (as quoted). Don't stall and you don't spin.

[gasman]

Originally Posted by MauiLvrs

Then ... Why are they soooo many spin accidents in these "commonly spun types" it they are soooo hard to spin?

It's easier to understand when you quote the entire statement.......

"Nobody has disagreed that you can snap roll an airplane out of a slip with a hard yank of the elevator. Again, in the commonly spun types, approach the "stall" slowly, and you're likely going to be bobbing along with full elevator, rudder, and aileron...without spinning."

He was talking from a slip....

Most accidents that happen in the pattern, base to final, starts with a SKID to a stall.

It is the SKID that kills. The slip to landing gives you more time to react to a stalled wing than a level wing approach.

.......As I entered the pattern the other day, an airplane on the ground announced that it was "taking 29er straight out". A plane that was on base, announced that it would "extend it's base" (he was flying a tight pattern) to allow extra time for the plane on the ground.................