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  #41  
Old 04-21-2013, 12:24 PM
rv8ch's Avatar
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,200
Default Loners

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
... unfortunately it seems a portion of the accidents are caused by pilots who don't frequent forums or safety seminars. Our challenge is finding a way to reach those "loners" but a solution has been elusive.

I suspect there are personality traits that leads those accident pilots to be both a loner and statistic.
Sam hits the nail on the head. Most of us are already converted and singing in the choir - how do we get the message out to those that need it? I'm not saying of course that a regular sermon refreshing "the word" isn't useful even to the believers (I know I benefit from these regular safety discussions).

I think this issue has been discussed a lot in various forums, and there does not seem to be any consensus, except that it's a hard problem and we should not give up or get discouraged.
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  #42  
Old 04-21-2013, 03:41 PM
rgmwa rgmwa is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 1,647
Default Accident update

This was posted yesterday on a local forum by someone who had known the test pilot for many years. I've reprinted it here with the OP's permission:

I spoke with a few people at Wayne's Memorial, family and others close to the plane builder and who were close to witnesses to the crash. From the little information that was available -

Wayne had been a part of and/or closely observed all of the build of the kit, so he was well versed in what was under the bonnet, so to speak, and so it is doubtful that something didn't get bolted up, which ought to have been.

The take-off was apparently normal and so was the initial climb to about 200ft, then the plane went vertical or near-vertical and stalled. There is then some conflicting reports about whether it tail-slid into the ground or tail-slid and then dropped the nose vertical before impact. The latter seems more likely from the photos of the scene which show the wings' l/e into the ground, although they could have been moved during the fire response.

The engine was reported to be running on impact.

The fire was almost instantaneous and reportedly took 35 mins to extinguish. Perhaps it was extinguished 35mins after impact.

There was a post mortem examination which reportedly indicated no fire or smoke inhalation damage to the lungs indicating that the pilot was unconcious or deceased before the fire ignited.

I did not hear of any indication, post mortem examination or otherwise, to indicate any health issue or incapacitation was suspected but that does not rule out that possibility.

You can draw your own conclusions.
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  #43  
Old 04-21-2013, 04:03 PM
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DonFromTX DonFromTX is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: La Feria Texas
Posts: 3,822
Default

Thanks, that was helpful information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmwa View Post
This was posted yesterday on a local forum by someone who had known the test pilot for many years. I've reprinted it here with the OP's permission:

I spoke with a few people at Wayne's Memorial, family and others close to the plane builder and who were close to witnesses to the crash. From the little information that was available -

Wayne had been a part of and/or closely observed all of the build of the kit, so he was well versed in what was under the bonnet, so to speak, and so it is doubtful that something didn't get bolted up, which ought to have been.

The take-off was apparently normal and so was the initial climb to about 200ft, then the plane went vertical or near-vertical and stalled. There is then some conflicting reports about whether it tail-slid into the ground or tail-slid and then dropped the nose vertical before impact. The latter seems more likely from the photos of the scene which show the wings' l/e into the ground, although they could have been moved during the fire response.

The engine was reported to be running on impact.

The fire was almost instantaneous and reportedly took 35 mins to extinguish. Perhaps it was extinguished 35mins after impact.

There was a post mortem examination which reportedly indicated no fire or smoke inhalation damage to the lungs indicating that the pilot was unconcious or deceased before the fire ignited.

I did not hear of any indication, post mortem examination or otherwise, to indicate any health issue or incapacitation was suspected but that does not rule out that possibility.

You can draw your own conclusions.
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  #44  
Old 04-21-2013, 08:37 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,820
Default

This a good aircraft, and I continue to fly mine without any reservations. Let's just let the Aussie authorities do their job and wait for the results. Believe me when I say the first 3 homebuilts I completed and fllew were no where near as well designed as the RV-12.
  #45  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:37 AM
menty menty is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 6
Default A lost Friend

I posted this elsewhere but now adding it here for consideration Thank you..

Guys,
Looking for answers.. A good friend and very very experienced pilot is dead as the result of a initial test flight going wrong in the RV12...

1. Does this aircraft have appropriate stick forces as required under LSA and most other catagories.
2. How easy is it to hook the trim servo up incorrectly and can we ascertain this by looking at the tail as the cockpit is destroyed.
3. Can a builder inadvertantly set the neutral /maximum up / maximum down positions of the elevator incorrectly.

It seems to me that, if the aircraft has no stick forces (or limited) a pilot could very easily cause the tail to stall (dynamic or otherwise) and fall sending the nose pitching up and that this situation would be totally unrecoverable as the tail would continue in its stalled state as the pilot in his endeavours to get the nose down would force the stall to continue.
It is normal practice to have straightline stick forces of say 7 kilogram (14 lbs) per "G".. Does anyone have this type of force on the 12... simple to check, spring scale on the joystick, G meter or small electric scale on dash with say 100 gram weight, going up 100 grams per G... Example .. at 300grams on the dash scale (3gs) should be 21kg (42 lb at the joystick).. Without this I would not be accepting any invitations to travel in such an aircraft.
I totally accept and appreciate that RVs have a excellent record aqnd this is not intended as an attack on the aircraft type but rather a search for what may have happened.
I have know and flown with the pilot on a regular basis for over 30 years and short of a health issue (and there was none), as autopsy investigation suggests he died on impact prior to the fire. If the aircraft was controllable this pilot could do it. There was one other comment on this site where a 12 suffered moderate damage after pitching up without notice and falling back into the ground. This begs that I ask how easy is it to accidentally rig the tail incorrectly which may cause it to stall and pitch the aircraft up?
I also noted another comment on this site from a pre-first flight Inspector in the USA, who stated that 50% of the aircraft he inspected had the trim servo wired in reverse. Is this over-ridable?
Is there anyone who can help here.
thanks

Email me directly by all means.. Just need an answer for the loss of a good friend..
  #46  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:32 AM
nauga nauga is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: AOTP
Posts: 192
Default

edit: After a more careful read of the post I responded to I've decided not to feed speculation.
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2004 RV-4

Last edited by nauga : 04-24-2013 at 10:48 AM.
  #47  
Old 04-24-2013, 10:46 AM
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Dgamble Dgamble is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 845
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nauga View Post
I have no knowledge of the stick force per g characteristics of the -12
I don't have any kind of measurements and the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data', but I find the pitch characteristics of the RV-12 to be quite docile and mainstream. It has a better, more controllable feel than my RV-6.
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  #48  
Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 PM
Limey Limey is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pentwater, MI
Posts: 17
Default

I think it goes without saying that the aircraft meets all the LSA requirements - it could not be sold as such otherwise. Certainly ANY homebuilder can make mistakes - that is why the smart homebuilder/test pilot does a VERY thorough inspection before he flies the aircraft.

Note that, even if you stalled the elevator, the aircraft would only go to a nose up attitude if it had an aft CG. This would be very hard to accomplish in this aircraft unless there was something seriously wrong.

As has been mentioned, let's wait for the official report on this accident before we start condemning the design, the builder, the pilot, or gravity!
  #49  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:06 PM
menty menty is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 6
Default Ongoing Search

People please read the post by "Johnf" titled "Crunch" and dated 24th June 2010 and give some feed back.

Regards
menty
  #50  
Old 04-24-2013, 07:14 PM
menty menty is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 6
Default keep looking please

See also the the post by Mel Asberry..DAR since last century on the 5th June 2010.. Try following these links...
http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...keoff+accident



http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...tabilator+trim messages 1, 4, 6 and especially 9. Also messages 12, 13.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...highlight=trim

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...highlight=trim

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ff+trim&page=2 messages 15, 16, 17

Regards
menty
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