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  #31  
Old 04-20-2013, 05:41 PM
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MauiLvrs MauiLvrs is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailvi767 View Post
If everyone knows what happened then why all the secrecy. Is there a lesson to this accident that might possibly save someone's life in the near future?
Probably...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I too think we may be going overboard on this site for "political correctness" in accident discussions. I sincerely believe in useful "Education thru Error" principles. ..
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgmwa View Post
... David Brown has already hinted that it was a pilot issue, not an aircraft fault. ...
Leaving the question of the day ... would it be an issue that would affect the safety of the two first flights mentioned below or any other first flight.

Doug's board ... Doug's rules...
We could start another (or use an existing one that's less restrictive) for discussing safety...
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Last edited by MauiLvrs : 04-20-2013 at 05:46 PM.
  #32  
Old 04-20-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I am serving notice to moderators, if I crash and burn, I want EVERYONE to please speculate, investigate, and put the blame exactly where it belongs, hopefully during the next day or two after my demise while it can have some effect on others safety.
Don,

I understand your sentiments but the problem with instant and uninformed speculation is the blame may be placed exactly where it doesn't belong.

And that is unproductive.
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  #33  
Old 04-20-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
I understand your sentiments but the problem with instant and uninformed speculation is the blame may be placed exactly where it doesn't belong.
I don't think that anyone wants to blame anyone (well some might, but likely not the ones in this and most other discussions).

Folks just don't want to wind up in the same boat... Just saying...
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  #34  
Old 04-20-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiLvrs View Post
I don't think that anyone wants to blame anyone (well some might, but likely not the ones in this and most other discussions).
I was just quoting Don's "blame" comment--blame (cause of accident) isn't necessarily directed at a person, it could be a mechanical failure or design problem.

Quote:
Folks just don't want to wind up in the same boat... Just saying...
That is why we have official accident reports.
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 04-20-2013 at 07:10 PM.
  #35  
Old 04-20-2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Buchanan View Post
That is why we have official accident reports.
Unfortunately ... that doesn't always seem to help and many times don't say much other than pilot error ...
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  #36  
Old 04-20-2013, 08:29 PM
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Default Discussion of accidents

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiLvrs View Post
...Doug's board ... Doug's rules...
We could start another (or use an existing one that's less restrictive) for discussing safety...
Very true. A long time ago before Doug purchased the current software (yes, it ain't free), Doug set up some Yahoo Groups for discussions in addition to his web page. If someone wants to set up a Yahoo Group or whatever to discuss accidents, that would probably be a good idea.

Some folks might remember that in the past, I have been one of the most avid contributors to discussions of accident causes. I learned that most of the time when I offered my opinion, I was wrong. Perhaps I had inaccurate or incomplete "facts," or maybe I was just wrong. I do enjoy reading accident reports to learn causes, but I don't enjoy emotional discussions that often cloud the facts. I also learned that pilot's opinions are like airplane wings...every one has at least one!

I have the opinion that the FAA, NTSB and those pesky litigation lawyers frequent this site, especially if they're looking for certain information. I've never talked to Doug about this and don't feel a need to, but he may not want his site viewed as a source for depositions in legal matters. That's my 2 cents worth.

Peace...
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  #37  
Old 04-21-2013, 01:04 AM
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Whilst I agree that he who owns the sandpit, makes the rules, I will say that I am a member of another forum where speculation is actively encouraged. Whilst emotions do get a little raw where friends and loved ones are concerned, I have learnt an incredible amount from the discussions there, EVEN when the theories put forward to explain an accident are later proven not to be the cause. The fact remains that they may have been correct and could cause the same thing to happen another time. My take on things is that forums have to a large extent replaced "hangar flying" for many of us - hangar flying where some of the information presented was equally questionable, but nevertheless helped pilots learn what wasn't taught at flying school.

All a bit off topic, but in the absence of concrete info on this one, I guess frustration leads us to find something to talk about.
  #38  
Old 04-21-2013, 08:08 AM
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I don't understand all this brouhaha, can't you read between the lines folks?
David Brown made it clear that, from what he knew, neither the RV-12 design nor the builder were at fault. What he knows he cannot communicate because the report of the coroner has not been released... This should be sufficient as a hint no?
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  #39  
Old 04-21-2013, 08:15 AM
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I guess it boils down to feeling bad that someone is saying to me "you are too dumb to sort thru the comments, so we will just not allow them".
Still, in looking for solutions rather than problems, I wonder in this world of electronic reminders, could we not make some sort of system that revisits these things after the "smart people" have sorted it all out? It is sad that we sweep it all under the carpet, never to be used for education. No wonder we have a perceived safety problem with homebuilts.
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  #40  
Old 04-21-2013, 11:54 AM
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Default If accidents are discussed in some forums, why are there still accidents?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonFromTX View Post
I guess it boils down to feeling bad that someone is saying to me "you are too dumb to sort thru the comments, so we will just not allow them".
Still, in looking for solutions rather than problems, I wonder in this world of electronic reminders, could we not make some sort of system that revisits these things after the "smart people" have sorted it all out? It is sad that we sweep it all under the carpet, never to be used for education. No wonder we have a perceived safety problem with homebuilts.
As I understand the forum rules, there is no prohibition against reviewing the NTSB accident reports and posting them to VAF for discussion. This would prevent "sweeping it all under the carpet", would limit discussion to primarily known facts, and serve as education for those who wish to profit from the discussion.

As for the perceived safety problem with homebuilts (and other light GA aircraft), unfortunately it seems a portion of the accidents are caused by pilots who don't frequent forums or safety seminars. Our challenge is finding a way to reach those "loners" but a solution has been elusive.

I suspect there are personality traits that leads those accident pilots to be both a loner and statistic.
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Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 04-21-2013 at 11:59 AM.
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