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  #11  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:43 AM
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KatieB KatieB is offline
 
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Default RV-1 Canopy

I really enjoyed this documentary album showing how Gary Hunter created the canopy skirt for the RV-1. I will study it even more when it comes time to make one for the -3. I have some glass layup experience and some art sculpture experience, and this looks to be a combination of the two!

https://picasaweb.google.com/1147263...at=directlink#
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2013, 06:57 AM
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I used the vans and modified for Todd's canopy. I had never touched fiberglass before. Learned from watching YouTube videos.

Sorry for the long photo post, hopefully this will help others.

















Fiberglass: It looks HORRIBLE until it doesn't.

This was the most time consuming portion of my build
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2013, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
This was the most time consuming portion of my build
Why is it every piece I get to at this point in the build is the most time consuming or most frustrating or most expensive part? Everyone said once you cut the canopy and get it bonded...it's all downhill from there. Now that the sikaflex is curing, I'm looking at the skirt with question marks hovering around my head and I read the above. You people....

Next will be firewall forward which I'm sure will make me pull my hair out. Then the cowling, which I'm certain will put me in a psych ward somewhere and lets not forget landing gear, hanging wings, wingtips, control surfaces etc. I miss the days of pounding rivets and taking two pieces of metal to make one.

I think I'll head down to the hanger and melt some more lead into Bob's IO-375 sump, that always cheers me up. Lighter than my angle valve is it? Not bloody likely.

Thanks for the writeup Rhino, that will help. Thanks to Katie as well for the link.
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Last edited by ColoRv : 04-02-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2013, 04:22 PM
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I also had to significantly modify Van's skirt to fit my Todd's canopy. I pretty much cut of the rear third on both sides and layed up new glass. Spent most of the summer on it; most of that trying to get it smooth. But, I had never done any fiberglass work up until that point. Part of me enjoyed it. Another part of me got very frustrated. I have to say modifying the existing canopy was easier than starting from scratch. However, depending on how much I would save by leaving out the Van's skirt, I would consider doing it from scratch now that I have a bit more confidence in my skills.
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  #15  
Old 04-03-2013, 07:30 AM
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Let's remember our "fiberglass 101" best practices when cutting skirts for fit.

Glass is spliced using a scarf joint, not a butt joint with splice plies on one side. The butt joint is (1) structurally weak, (2) creates a double thickness in the repair area, and (3) requires much more filler.

A scarf is easy. Just block sand a taper on the two edges and lay the splice plies into the depression. When cured, sand flush.

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  #16  
Old 04-03-2013, 08:47 AM
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I apologize up front...it's not a pleasure to be critical of any specific work. However, this work is on the front page and it's a good example of how not to do this task.

Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup. Look close and you find woven edges, with one edge being even thicker than the other. The thick edge creates a void when another ply is laid over top of it. Filling the void requires a lot of epoxy (i.e. a very wet layup). The alternative is an air bubble. Even in a non-structural part the air void creates finishing trouble.



The woven edges also lock the criss-crossed threads of the weave in relation to each other. If the threads can't shift a little the fabric doesn't conform to curves and shapes very well.

Last, a layup pieced together from many individual tape strips almost always results in a variety of thicknesses. So, the part requires a lot of filler, or sanding away a lot of the fiberglass fiber. Again, even for a non-structural part you're just making a lot of work.

This particular part seems to illustrate A Great Sin of composite construction....built-in delaminations and voids.



I assume the goal was to overlay the base component. In this case the overlay could have easily been unbroken fabric plies instead of tape, resulting in no laps, no voids, even thickness, and much less finish work. The cut pattern would have been a large U-shape; like a dressmaker you merely cut a paper pattern to get started. I imagine ordinary 9oz plain weave would lay smoothly, and 8.9 oz 8-harness certainly would.

FWIW, I have still not used up the original rolls of glass tape I purchased from Wicks in the mid-90's.

Again, I apologize for singling out this particular example.
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Last edited by DanH : 04-03-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2013, 09:41 AM
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rv8ch rv8ch is online now
 
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Default Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
...Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup.....
Wow - I didn't know this. Makes perfect sense with your diagrams. Thanks!
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2013, 01:47 PM
BonitaRV8 BonitaRV8 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
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Default Cost delta

So how much does a Todd's canopy cost (couldn't find it on his web site) and how much of a discount will Vans give you for removal of their canopy (if anybody knows)? I just ordered the finishing kit last week and might want to remove the canopy before it's too late (unless it's too late already).

Thanks,

Scott
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:18 PM
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Rhino889 Rhino889 is offline
 
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I agree.

Not the way to do it. Like I said... I had NO clue how to do this stuff called fiberglass. Once I started sanding the voids became canyons and valleys. Yes they filled nicely.

This was an example of stage 1 in a learning process.

Thanks for the Diagrams Dan... I hope that I NEVER need to refer to them! NO more fiberglass for me

Regards,

Scott


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
I apologize up front...it's not a pleasure to be critical of any specific work. However, this work is on the front page and it's a good example of how not to do this task.

Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup. Look close and you find woven edges, with one edge being even thicker than the other. The thick edge creates a void when another ply is laid over top of it. Filling the void requires a lot of epoxy (i.e. a very wet layup). The alternative is an air bubble. Even in a non-structural part the air void creates finishing trouble.



The woven edges also lock the criss-crossed threads of the weave in relation to each other. If the threads can't shift a little the fabric doesn't conform to curves and shapes very well.

Last, a layup pieced together from many individual tape strips almost always results in a variety of thicknesses. So, the part requires a lot of filler, or sanding away a lot of the fiberglass fiber. Again, even for a non-structural part you're just making a lot of work.

This particular part seems to illustrate A Great Sin of composite construction....built-in delaminations and voids.



I assume the goal was to overlay the base component. In this case the overlay could have easily been unbroken fabric plies instead of tape, resulting in no laps, no voids, even thickness, and much less finish work. The cut pattern would have been a large U-shape; like a dressmaker you merely cut a paper pattern to get started. I imagine ordinary 9oz plain weave would lay smoothly, and 8.9 oz 8-harness certainly would.

FWIW, I have still not used up the original rolls of glass tape I purchased from Wicks in the mid-90's.

Again, I apologize for singling out this particular example.
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This is my personal account and does not reflect the official communications of Aircraftwraps.com. We have retained a username for such correspondence. I post about formation, eating, aerobatics and pilot stuff .
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2013, 02:23 PM
apatti apatti is offline
 
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I don't exaxtly recall the prices when I bought mine (probably about 5 years ago). But I do recall saving $100-200 and getting a thicker, guranteed canopy by going the Todd's. Oh, I also got a free hat!
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