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04-02-2013, 06:43 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stilwell, KS
Posts: 1,096
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RV-1 Canopy
I really enjoyed this documentary album showing how Gary Hunter created the canopy skirt for the RV-1. I will study it even more when it comes time to make one for the -3. I have some glass layup experience and some art sculpture experience, and this looks to be a combination of the two!
https://picasaweb.google.com/1147263...at=directlink#
__________________
Katie Bosman
RV-3B sold, but flying!
Next project: ???
Builders gonna build...
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04-02-2013, 06:57 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jupiter FL.
Posts: 451
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__________________
VAF DUES 7/13, 12/13, 03/14
Founder/Director
www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replace paint with performance.
This is my personal account and does not reflect the official communications of Aircraftwraps.com. We have retained a username for such correspondence. I post about formation, eating, aerobatics and pilot stuff  .
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04-02-2013, 09:01 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Tampa (BKV)
Posts: 926
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Quote:
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This was the most time consuming portion of my build
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Why is it every piece I get to at this point in the build is the most time consuming or most frustrating or most expensive part? Everyone said once you cut the canopy and get it bonded...it's all downhill from there. Now that the sikaflex is curing, I'm looking at the skirt with question marks hovering around my head and I read the above. You people....
Next will be firewall forward which I'm sure will make me pull my hair out. Then the cowling, which I'm certain will put me in a psych ward somewhere and lets not forget landing gear, hanging wings, wingtips, control surfaces etc. I miss the days of pounding rivets and taking two pieces of metal to make one.
I think I'll head down to the hanger and melt some more lead into Bob's IO-375 sump, that always cheers me up. Lighter than my angle valve is it? Not bloody likely.
Thanks for the writeup Rhino, that will help. Thanks to Katie as well for the link.
__________________
RV-8 Flying
1,235th flying RV8
SARL Race#95
SnF Homebuilt Judge
2015 Sun n Fun Kit Built Reserve Grand Champion
2015 Oshkosh Kit Built Champion
2015 Jeffco Kit Built Grand Champion
2014 Oshkosh Outstanding Workmanship Award
Broken Warrior of the Jarhead Clan
Last edited by ColoRv : 04-02-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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04-02-2013, 04:22 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 654
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I also had to significantly modify Van's skirt to fit my Todd's canopy. I pretty much cut of the rear third on both sides and layed up new glass. Spent most of the summer on it; most of that trying to get it smooth. But, I had never done any fiberglass work up until that point. Part of me enjoyed it. Another part of me got very frustrated. I have to say modifying the existing canopy was easier than starting from scratch. However, depending on how much I would save by leaving out the Van's skirt, I would consider doing it from scratch now that I have a bit more confidence in my skills.
__________________
Tony
RV8A
N97AP
Warner Robins, GA
Phase I complete
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04-03-2013, 07:30 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Let's remember our "fiberglass 101" best practices when cutting skirts for fit.
Glass is spliced using a scarf joint, not a butt joint with splice plies on one side. The butt joint is (1) structurally weak, (2) creates a double thickness in the repair area, and (3) requires much more filler.
A scarf is easy. Just block sand a taper on the two edges and lay the splice plies into the depression. When cured, sand flush.

__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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04-03-2013, 08:47 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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I apologize up front...it's not a pleasure to be critical of any specific work. However, this work is on the front page and it's a good example of how not to do this task.
Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup. Look close and you find woven edges, with one edge being even thicker than the other. The thick edge creates a void when another ply is laid over top of it. Filling the void requires a lot of epoxy (i.e. a very wet layup). The alternative is an air bubble. Even in a non-structural part the air void creates finishing trouble.
The woven edges also lock the criss-crossed threads of the weave in relation to each other. If the threads can't shift a little the fabric doesn't conform to curves and shapes very well.
Last, a layup pieced together from many individual tape strips almost always results in a variety of thicknesses. So, the part requires a lot of filler, or sanding away a lot of the fiberglass fiber. Again, even for a non-structural part you're just making a lot of work.
This particular part seems to illustrate A Great Sin of composite construction....built-in delaminations and voids.
I assume the goal was to overlay the base component. In this case the overlay could have easily been unbroken fabric plies instead of tape, resulting in no laps, no voids, even thickness, and much less finish work. The cut pattern would have been a large U-shape; like a dressmaker you merely cut a paper pattern to get started. I imagine ordinary 9oz plain weave would lay smoothly, and 8.9 oz 8-harness certainly would.
FWIW, I have still not used up the original rolls of glass tape I purchased from Wicks in the mid-90's.
Again, I apologize for singling out this particular example.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Last edited by DanH : 04-03-2013 at 08:52 AM.
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04-03-2013, 09:41 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,199
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Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
...Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup.....
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Wow - I didn't know this. Makes perfect sense with your diagrams. Thanks!
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04-03-2013, 01:47 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Bonita, Ca
Posts: 56
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Cost delta
So how much does a Todd's canopy cost (couldn't find it on his web site) and how much of a discount will Vans give you for removal of their canopy (if anybody knows)? I just ordered the finishing kit last week and might want to remove the canopy before it's too late (unless it's too late already).
Thanks,
Scott
__________________
Empannagee done
Wings 90% done
Received fuselage
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04-03-2013, 02:18 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Jupiter FL.
Posts: 451
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I agree.
Not the way to do it. Like I said... I had NO clue how to do this stuff called fiberglass. Once I started sanding the voids became canyons and valleys. Yes they filled nicely.
This was an example of stage 1 in a learning process.
Thanks for the Diagrams Dan... I hope that I NEVER need to refer to them! NO more fiberglass for me
Regards,
Scott
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
I apologize up front...it's not a pleasure to be critical of any specific work. However, this work is on the front page and it's a good example of how not to do this task.
Glass tape is generally a poor choice for layup. Look close and you find woven edges, with one edge being even thicker than the other. The thick edge creates a void when another ply is laid over top of it. Filling the void requires a lot of epoxy (i.e. a very wet layup). The alternative is an air bubble. Even in a non-structural part the air void creates finishing trouble.
The woven edges also lock the criss-crossed threads of the weave in relation to each other. If the threads can't shift a little the fabric doesn't conform to curves and shapes very well.
Last, a layup pieced together from many individual tape strips almost always results in a variety of thicknesses. So, the part requires a lot of filler, or sanding away a lot of the fiberglass fiber. Again, even for a non-structural part you're just making a lot of work.
This particular part seems to illustrate A Great Sin of composite construction....built-in delaminations and voids.
I assume the goal was to overlay the base component. In this case the overlay could have easily been unbroken fabric plies instead of tape, resulting in no laps, no voids, even thickness, and much less finish work. The cut pattern would have been a large U-shape; like a dressmaker you merely cut a paper pattern to get started. I imagine ordinary 9oz plain weave would lay smoothly, and 8.9 oz 8-harness certainly would.
FWIW, I have still not used up the original rolls of glass tape I purchased from Wicks in the mid-90's.
Again, I apologize for singling out this particular example.
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__________________
VAF DUES 7/13, 12/13, 03/14
Founder/Director
www.Aircraftwraps.com
Replace paint with performance.
This is my personal account and does not reflect the official communications of Aircraftwraps.com. We have retained a username for such correspondence. I post about formation, eating, aerobatics and pilot stuff  .
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04-03-2013, 02:23 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 654
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I don't exaxtly recall the prices when I bought mine (probably about 5 years ago). But I do recall saving $100-200 and getting a thicker, guranteed canopy by going the Todd's. Oh, I also got a free hat! 
__________________
Tony
RV8A
N97AP
Warner Robins, GA
Phase I complete
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