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03-28-2013, 07:09 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 846
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screws
I had a talk with Vans about theses screws and they are not there for strength there to hold the two together like the faring on top which is not there for strenght .Thats what the spar is for!
Bob
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03-28-2013, 08:03 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Gun
I had a talk with Vans about theses screws and they are not there for strength there to hold the two together like the faring on top which is not there for strenght .Thats what the spar is for!
Bob
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Not the first time two different answers have come from Van's. The 6 was designed a long time ago.
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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03-28-2013, 08:35 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Trenton, SC
Posts: 117
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Here is another great advantage for the prepunched kits. Back in the "6" days you actually had to study the prints to measure and decide where to drill all the holes. Now with the prepunched, you know something must go there (99.9%) of the time. With those older kits and inexperienced builders, there was always the possiblity that something was overlooked...pays to have another set of eyes while building.
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03-28-2013, 09:29 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: 57AZ - NW Tucson area
Posts: 10,011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edbooth
Here is another great advantage for the prepunched kits. Back in the "6" days you actually had to study the prints to measure and decide where to drill all the holes. Now with the prepunched, you know something must go there (99.9%) of the time. With those older kits and inexperienced builders, there was always the possiblity that something was overlooked...pays to have another set of eyes while building.
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Are they pre-punched on the RV-7?
I thought they were #40 holes and you leave out every third rivet and drill out for a #8 screw later.
I bet a lot of the should be empty rivet holes got filled...
I think this particular row of holes may be in the pre-punched 0.1%...
__________________
Gil Alexander
EAA Technical Counselor, Airframe Mechanic
Half completed RV-10 QB purchased
RV-6A N61GX - finally flying
Grumman Tiger N12GA - flying
La Cholla Airpark (57AZ) Tucson AZ
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03-28-2013, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 846
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screwed
Jon your right about different answers I called about 6 months ago when I was installing my wings and talked to tech and ask if all were nessary and was told no called back today and spoke with a young fellow and he said yes so what to do now i have seven on each side and eleven is the correct number so im off 4 on each side sure dont want to pull wings off flying or now.
Bob
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03-28-2013, 01:32 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Battleground
Posts: 4,348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Gun
Jon your right about different answers I called about 6 months ago when I was installing my wings and talked to tech and ask if all were nessary and was told no called back today and spoke with a young fellow and he said yes so what to do now i have seven on each side and eleven is the correct number so im off 4 on each side sure dont want to pull wings off flying or now.
Bob
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I wouldn't think you are "screwed" just yet. There are obviously at least two airplanes flying around out there without any screws in them and none have fallen out of the sky. So, you are at least 14 screws better than that. I do know those screws are structural, but I do not know to what degree they contribute to the overall strength of the wing. If I had to guess, not much, but that is only a guess.
If you want a formal written answer from Van's, you have to email it, follow up, and if your patient they will get an "engineered" answer back to you.
PM'ing you shortly with some additional advice.
__________________
Smart People do Stupid things all the time. I know, I've seen me do'em.
RV6 - Builder/Flying
Bucker Jungmann
Fiat G.46 -(restoration in progress, if I have enough life left in me)
RV1 - Proud Pilot.
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03-29-2013, 01:45 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 671
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How about drilling dimples? You could add stainless steel flush washers to the screw head side. I think with a flat washer on the nut side you'd have a very strong assembly.
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03-30-2013, 10:57 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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A few comments....
Screws at this location weren't specifically designed into the wing attach system, but static testing has proven numerous times that it does transfer some level of wing load into the fuselage/center section.
I personally would not build/own an RV without them.
I have done prebuys on a few RV's without the screws. I always list it as a deficiency with the airplane.
Most importantly in my opinion (and already mentioned) is that these screws missing is for me an indicator of a lack of planning and attention to detail. As already mentioned, an airplane with these screws missing would make me look very carefully at the entire airplane (just one of the reasons a person familiar with a specific model needs to be involved in prepurchase inspections)
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03-30-2013, 06:04 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: FL
Posts: 100
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So the consensus seems that if you want the wings to meet design strength, the screws are required. A couple questions then.
If the seller was unwilling to pay to install the screws, and unwilling to lower the price enough so that I could pay to have them installed, how can I:
1 - Insure that everyone who might try to buy this plane is aware of this problem so they don't buy it and have the wings fall off?
2 - Recover my good-faith deposit that the seller has refused to return to me, citing that the plane has flown fine for a short time, and that 2 random people say the screws aren't needed.
I understand that specifics of the aircraft shouldn't be cited here.
Also, does anyone know if the DAR or FSDO that originally signed off the plane would pull the airworthiness certificate knowing this, or because it's an experimental is pretty much anything acceptable?
Thanks again for all the information, you guys are amazingly knowledgable!
Last edited by FitzRX7 : 03-31-2013 at 08:30 AM.
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03-30-2013, 06:28 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FitzRX7
Also, does anyone know if the DAR or FSDO that originally signed off the plane would pull the airworthiness certificate knowing this, or because it's an experimental is pretty much anything acceptable?
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Personally I would not sign off the aircraft without them (And I have inspected more than a few RVs). We do not have an obligation to sign off anything we are not comfortable with.
On the other hand, from a "legal" standpoint, it would be acceptable.
A FSDO inspector not familiar with the RV-6 might not even notice.
Remember, issuance of the airworthiness certificate only requires that the aircraft meet the requirements for amateur-built certification. The builder is the one who states that the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation.
__________________
Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
Last edited by Mel : 03-30-2013 at 06:30 PM.
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